62 replies to this topic

[Tincan Nightmare]

If you look close when it switches over to the Spider cockpit, you can see its paper doll and that it was hurt also, one side torso being cherry red with general damage spread across the rest (think one arm nearly gone too). Yes the other mechs it engaged were no doubt already damaged, and if they were missing armor the crit ability of 4 mg's only made the situation worse, but place almost any other mech in that situation, even other lights, and I doubt they would have won like the Spider did. Several times it seemed like it took hits and just shrugged them off. If this is an issue with the Spider, I hope PGI fixes it, as no mech should be running around using a built in exploit to avoid damage.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

nice use of 2 dimensions to try to formulate the defense.

The Commando is both wider, longer and noticeably thicker than the 5 ton heavier SDR. The Jenner, as noted has a rather "are ya happy to see me" CT. Ant the Raven has that PLUS is noticeably taller (though admittedly, lankier)

I don't have the models at my disposal for measurement so Adrios' scale is all I have off-hand.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

And when I see a Jenner with 4 ballistic, I´ll call the Spider a humanoid Jenner. And even if they shared hardpoints, no reason to continue borking the scale. Starting to wonder if I'm parking on your Epeen or something here bro , wasn´t aware the SDR had become your pet ride.

The only lights I've ridden are Ravens, and a few matches in Jenners (only finished 4/8 basics on the 6 energy variant and got bored, also used the trial champion a bit to grind C-Bills on an alternate account). I'm mostly defending the light class in general, and Spiders fall under that demographic. As for the "humanoid Jenner" thing, it's more about the general idea of a light mech that can cram in a lot of gunz (with disregard to what the specific guns are). The 5V and 5D variants would only have energy hardpoints if we go by their stock configs so they would be fairly close to Jenners in armaments if they got hardpoint inflated.

Ghogiel, on 14 October 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Remember the saying "Ravens eat spiders"

Why would anyone complain about the spider when every match was full of RVN3LEL lagshield SSRMs CTing everything?
It was hard to last 5seconds in a murder of RVNs that was on every team back then.

Even after the 3L meta ended (same time as the BAP buff), I didn't see any Spider complaints (Jenners reclaimed the throne).





EDIT: For anyone who still thinks I drive Spiders:

Yup, that's right. I can be a spokesperson for a mech that I have not once used. Most people can't say that about themselves. The only experience I have with Spiders is fighting them and killing them--and once in a blue moon they even manage to land the killing blow after their team punched holes in my armor. I also used to have a lot more Raven overstock XP but it got converted to GXP because I got impatient and wanted Seismic Sensor right away.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Good point, actually. SSRMs were the meal ticket for Lights back in the day.

With there CT seeking ability there were good for any mech, like the infamous Streakcat. Automatic shots to the CT to kill a target is always good, especially when in a mech that's moving fast.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tincan Nightmare, on 14 October 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

place almost any other mech in that situation, even other lights, and I doubt they would have won like the Spider did. Several times it seemed like it took hits and just shrugged them off. If this is an issue with the Spider, I hope PGI fixes it, as no mech should be running around using a built in exploit to avoid damage.

Oh it is a for real, set in stone issue, that PGI has even, grudgingly acknowledged. Eventually, just like the Raven-3L of yore, there are going to be a number of Spider jocks in for a very rude wake up call as to their actual skill level.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 October 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[Ghogiel]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Even after the 3L meta ended (same time as the BAP buff), I didn't see any Spider complaints (Jenners reclaimed the throne).

3L meta ended sometime after HSR was implemented in march.

People have been complaining about spider hit detection the whole time actually. They were never a big issue because it was a rarely seen mech, thus the forum only had a mention of it here and there. It's not until it's a pretty common sight that it would be a pretty common thing people complain about.

[FupDup]

Ghogiel, on 14 October 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

3L meta ended sometime after HSR was implemented in march.

People have been complaining about spider hit detection the whole time actually. They were never a big issue because it was a rarely seen mech, thus the forum only had a mention of it here and there. It's not until it's a pretty common sight that it would be a pretty common thing people complain about.

If people were complaining about it I definitely haven't seen it (mostly just Jenner and 3L complaints up until like 1-2 months ago). I've gotten too caught-up in the 6 MG Spider and 4 MG Spider memes which used to be widely considered the epitome of weak mechs in MWO.

And HSR did definitely cull the 3L meta quite a bit but it was still the king light for a while afterwards (6 ML Jenner was able to compete against it after laser HSR, but not fully dislodge its position as king) up until the BAP buff let non-ECM lights get Streak lock-on--at this point most 3L drivers just gave up and went with Jenners or some other weight class.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Nice try, but big brother was watching you guys.


But seriously. Lights don't need to be the size of mediums. Were either of you guys playing the game sometime last year when the Spider was first added? Nobody called it overpowered. No one. Nada. The mech is the same it's always been, it's just that people look at it differently and hit registration is wonky.




Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. One mech being mis-scaled doesn't mean more of them have to be as well.



The only issue is hit detection.

Yeah Fup. But if its a fat spider there's more to shoot at lol.

[Ghogiel]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

If people were complaining about it I definitely haven't seen it (mostly just Jenner and 3L complaints up until like 1-2 months ago).

APR 9th
http://mwomercs.com/...r-armor-issues/

and yeah 3L RVNs lasted until ballistic and PPC HSR came in which was a while after the lasers iirc.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 October 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghogiel, on 14 October 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

APR 9th
http://mwomercs.com/...r-armor-issues/

and yeah 3L RVNs lasted until ballistic and PPC HSR came in which was a while after the lasers iirc.

"BANG"

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Curccu, on 14 October 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Stalker had no idea how to pilot mech

Stalker should've melted the spider. If you spectate a person, you're not seeing what he sees and furthermore the STK does not see what the Spider sees. Spider was standing almost still to STK and I think it hit him, but the damage/hit reg is broken. Of course we can't see the paperdoll so it's all speculation.

[WiIIiam]

[WiIIiam]

This wasn't intended as a hey look at what I can do post, this was intended as a hey look how broken this mech chassis is.

I usually play a heavy or assault mech but chose to take this because the other two guys I dropped with were taking equivalent mechs. When I came up on the cataphract his rear torso was a light orange, the orion had armor on most of him except it was yellow, I'd hit him when I was circling the base. The stalker had no armor on his left torso and I took advantage of that, took it then stripped what armor was left on his CT off and killed him via it. I never saw what the armor was like on the blackjack, he didn't register before I killed him since he was shut down for a couple of seconds after I engaged him.

[KharnZor]

Will I Am, on 14 October 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

This wasn't intended as a hey look at what I can do post, this was intended as a hey look how broken this mech chassis is.

Maybe next time think before you make a thread.

[WiIIiam]

KharnZor, on 14 October 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Maybe next time think before you make a thread.

It got you and several others to pay notice to it so I'm confident it accomplished it's purpose.

[Bishop Steiner]

Will I Am, on 14 October 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

This wasn't intended as a hey look at what I can do post, this was intended as a hey look how broken this mech chassis is.

I usually play a heavy or assault mech but chose to take this because the other two guys I dropped with were taking equivalent mechs. When I came up on the cataphract his rear torso was a light orange, the orion had armor on most of him except it was yellow, I'd hit him when I was circling the base. The stalker had no armor on his left torso and I took advantage of that, took it then stripped what armor was left on his CT off and killed him via it. I never saw what the armor was like on the blackjack, he didn't register before I killed him since he was shut down for a couple of seconds after I engaged him.

Or elucidate upon the purpose. If I indeed misread the intent, my apologies. Epeen is the natural order of things here, so when one posts without explanatory context, it is a natural assumption.

[DrxAbstract]

I know this kind of piloting - It happens in one of two situations: The pilot knows he's fighting inferior opponents or The pilot is bad.

Given every opponent was heavily damaged and slow moving and didnt seem to understand that you still need to compensate for movement with HSR, the former is most likely. Actual hits did, for the most part, cause actual damage. It's a problem with hit detection and HSR that affects nearly, if not all, mechs and players. I took a PPC and Gauss hit to my Jager's arm from 400ish meters earlier, did 0 damage... Had 3 ER Larges raked across my Jenner from 700 meters, paperdoll didnt even light up.

Perhaps it's time to pay more attention to mechs other than Spiders, as well as the one you're piloting, because if you were, you'd noticed it's not specific to Spiders. It only seems that way due to a combination of their small size and you entering the situation with the preconceived notion that there's something wrong with them.

Truth is there's something wrong with Hit Detection and HSR for all mechs and players and your aim isnt as good as you think it is.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 14 October 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[Rhaythe]

I'm genuinely confused about an issue here. Maybe I'm fortunate to be able to play at 50 ping and don't have these issues whatsoever (I've put AC20 rounds into spiders and they go boom regularly). In any other game (READ: CoD, BF?, whatever), a player with high lag is generally derided and made fun of. Or just shot dead as his avatar spazzes out against a wall.

Why is it in Mechwarrior Online, laggy players are PGI's fault? They're doing what they can to aid high-lag players, but why are we blaming them for players' crappy connections?

What am I missing?

[BlackIronTarkus]

So much ********... this video is obviously late game, which mean the 4 last enemy mechs have been stripped out of their armor, that means perfect target for a 4 weilding machine gun battlemech.

They are slow, they are easily avoided, I do the same in my hunchback: HBK-4G - stripper

Hell I even did better with that hunch, killed a cataphract, a stalker, a centurion and an atlas in conquest on tourmaline. Unlike that guy, they didnt come one by one.

[Effectz]

[Rhaythe]

Effectz, on 15 October 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Interesting.

What kind of ping were you getting in this game?