36 replies to this topic

[Bront]

Terciel1976, on 15 October 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

I've thought about this and come up with a few categories: Optimal, usable if on hand but suboptimal (not all come on anything, XL250 is the poster child for this category), best for some mechs (XL275 for a mech capped at 275 being a key example, XL280 otherwise superior), highly questionable (the XL245 will save you .5 ton, but cost you three slots) and garbage (XL230 for instance)

When I get the list done, that's how they'll be graded.

S

That makes sense. For simplicity on a short list, I'd just list them as an XL275/280 though, as the difference is marginal, and if you need to use the 275, you're not exactly gimping yourself seriously.

[TercieI]

Bront, on 15 October 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

That makes sense. For simplicity on a short list, I'd just list them as an XL275/280 though, as the difference is marginal, and if you need to use the 275, you're not exactly gimping yourself seriously.

Yeah, I don't disagree. But if buying, you buy the 280. If you have the 275, don't bother. That's actually sortof exactly what I'm trying to show.

S

Edited by Terciel1976, 15 October 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[PawPaWuFF]

this is what i compiled all these engines and those inbetwix should weigh the same

STD
105-110
115-120
130-135
140-145
150-155
160-170
175-180
186-190

XL
105-120
130-145
150-170
175-180
185-195
205-210
215-220
230-235
240-245
250-255
260-265
275-280
290-295
375-380

Edited by user5318, 20 January 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[Big Tin Man]

Any thought on this list since some additional larger mechs have been introduced? I'm looking at buying an XL360+ for my battlemaster, but want to find something that is versitle.

[TercieI]

Big Tin Man, on 14 March 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Any thought on this list since some additional larger mechs have been introduced? I'm looking at buying an XL360+ for my battlemaster, but want to find something that is versitle.

IMO, the XL360 offers minimal benefit over the XL350. The 1.5 tons is almost always worth more than the 1-2KPH.

I have actually finished the engine guide I mentioned above, but forgot about this thread. I'll try to get it reformatted and posted.

[levitas]

295XL is not niche, it's the most important engine for 35 ton mechs, in direct competition and just as useful (for that tonnage) as the 300XL.

Given that 35 tonners are the best light mechs, I'd say that's a bit better than niche.

[TercieI]

solar levitas, on 14 March 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

295XL is not niche, it's the most important engine for 35 ton mechs, in direct competition and just as useful (for that tonnage) as the 300XL.

Given that 35 tonners are the best light mechs, I'd say that's a bit better than niche.

Hear, hear. FS9s, RVN-3L and BJ-1X should use it, JR7s can-to-should depending on model and build. Great engine.

Follows the XL300, XL255 and XL280 as "must own" XLs, IMO.

Edited by Terciel1976, 14 March 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

Terciel1976, on 14 March 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

IMO, the XL360 offers minimal benefit over the XL350. The 1.5 tons is almost always worth more than the 1-2KPH.

I have actually finished the engine guide I mentioned above, but forgot about this thread. I'll try to get it reformatted and posted.

The XL360 was more of a compromise over going XL400. Those 1-2 kph keep adding up when you only go 65, but I don't want to spend nearly 7 million c-bills for an engine that only fits in one mech chassis.

[NRP]

My advice is to just buy whatever the hell engine you need for your particular situation. Don't worry about "optimal" engines for multi-use. It's false economy imo. Soon you'll have so many damn mechs that you won't want to hassle with remembering where your damn XL300 is and swapping it out before launching (especially in UI 2.0), all while your group is waiting for you. Life is too short.

Big Tin Man, on 14 March 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

The XL360 was more of a compromise over going XL400. Those 1-2 kph keep adding up when you only go 65, but I don't want to spend nearly 7 million c-bills for an engine that only fits in one mech chassis.

Actually, you can make some good Battlemaster and Banshee (both XL friendly chassis) builds with an XL400. Although speed is great, the biggest advantage an XL400 brings is the extra engine HS slot. Many Assault builds run out of crit slots before they run out of tonnage, so the extra engine slot helps.

Edited by NRP, 14 March 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[TercieI]

Big Tin Man, on 14 March 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

The XL360 was more of a compromise over going XL400. Those 1-2 kph keep adding up when you only go 65, but I don't want to spend nearly 7 million c-bills for an engine that only fits in one mech chassis.

I can't come up with a mech where 360 works where 350 doesn't (including BLR). The bigger XL engines are specialized at best and novelties at worst. Past 350, I don't see much point in any besides the "quarter century" ones. That said, I actually do own both a 350 and a 360. I no longer have any 360-using builds. JMO, of course.

[DONTOR]

^Sorry buddy but XL360s are Extremely useful in both the dragons and quickdraws, neither of which is really useful themselves... JK sorta.
I also use 360s in most of my Victors gotta get the (80KPH)
Oh ya and of course it is also the max engine for all 55 ton mechs so yes it is very useful. (375 for W6K though)

Edited by DONTOR, 14 March 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Koniks]

NRP, on 14 March 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Actually, you can make some good Battlemaster and Banshee (both XL friendly chassis) builds with an XL400. Although speed is great, the biggest advantage an XL400 brings is the extra engine HS slot. Many Assault builds run out of crit slots before they run out of tonnage, so the extra engine slot helps.

Terciel1976, on 14 March 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

I can't come up with a mech where 360 works where 350 doesn't (including BLR). The bigger XL engines are specialized at best and novelties at worst. Past 350, I don't see much point in any besides the "quarter century" ones. That said, I actually do own both a 350 and a 360. I no longer have any 360-using builds. JMO, of course.

I'd agree with both of these in part. There are good XL375 and XL400 builds, particularly for the BLRs but I would mostly avoid the 'tweener engines. The extra KPH are noticeable, allow you to play the mech more like a medium, and give you some more criticals to play with because of the engine heat sink slots.

You'll usually be better served making the full +/- 25 step and adjusting the rest of the loadout to compensate.

Edited by Mizeur, 14 March 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Buckminster]

Big Tin Man, on 14 March 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

The XL360 was more of a compromise over going XL400. Those 1-2 kph keep adding up when you only go 65, but I don't want to spend nearly 7 million c-bills for an engine that only fits in one mech chassis.

I was planning on grabbing a 375 XL for my Battlemasters - it's faster than the stock engine, and is the maximum engine size for the Wolverine 6K. I wanted to do something with that Wolverine to make up for the fact that it can't have jump jets, and the fact that I can use it for the Battlemaster makes it an easier buy.

[Bront]

Terciel1976, on 14 March 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

I can't come up with a mech where 360 works where 350 doesn't (including BLR). The bigger XL engines are specialized at best and novelties at worst. Past 350, I don't see much point in any besides the "quarter century" ones. That said, I actually do own both a 350 and a 360. I no longer have any 360-using builds. JMO, of course.

The 360 being the top engine in several mechs is somewhat functional in making those mechs fast, and in the Victor's case, it's the minimum engine if you want to go 80 in (and I find that the difference between 78 and 80 to be a big enough deal).

It's preference in many cases though. There are times where the extra tonnage might be useful, and there are times where speed is a big deal.

[Bront]

solar levitas, on 14 March 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

295XL is not niche, it's the most important engine for 35 ton mechs, in direct competition and just as useful (for that tonnage) as the 300XL.

Given that 35 tonners are the best light mechs, I'd say that's a bit better than niche.

295XL is Niche in regards to:
1) Most mechs that can mount an XL300 should usually go XL300 vs XL295.
2) Most mechs that can only mount an XL295 might instead choose to mount an XL280 with little sacrifice.
3) There are only 6 mechs with the XL295 cap, 1 Raven variant , 1 BJ variant, and all the Firestarters.

Niche means not for general use, and that is indeed correct. Just because it's now a more popular niche doesn't mean it's not a niche. It's a fairly large niche, but it's still a niche.

[TercieI]

<deleted>

Edited by Terciel1976, 16 March 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[TercieI]

DONTOR, on 14 March 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

^Sorry buddy but XL360s are Extremely useful in both the dragons and quickdraws, neither of which is really useful themselves... JK sorta.
I also use 360s in most of my Victors gotta get the (80KPH)
Oh ya and of course it is also the max engine for all 55 ton mechs so yes it is very useful. (375 for W6K though)

Well, I'll concede that it might help in DRG and QKD, because I do not own either and thus don't think much of my opinion on fine points of their loadouts.

As for the 55-tonners, every time I build one with a 360, I find the 350 offers me something of more value than the minimal speed increase of the 360 for those precious 1.5 tons (and I suspect I would think this for the 60-tonners).

Bront, on 16 March 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

The 360 being the top engine in several mechs is somewhat functional in making those mechs fast, and in the Victor's case, it's the minimum engine if you want to go 80 in (and I find that the difference between 78 and 80 to be a big enough deal).

It's preference in many cases though. There are times where the extra tonnage might be useful, and there are times where speed is a big deal.

As you say, preference. I personally suspect the difference between 78 and 80 is psychological. I have not found it to matter to me. (Though I confess I run VTRs with STD270 or XL325 generally and not as jump-brawlers)

Bront, on 16 March 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

295XL is Niche in regards to:
1) Most mechs that can mount an XL300 should usually go XL300 vs XL295.
2) Most mechs that can only mount an XL295 might instead choose to mount an XL280 with little sacrifice.
3) There are only 6 mechs with the XL295 cap, 1 Raven variant , 1 BJ variant, and all the Firestarters.

Niche means not for general use, and that is indeed correct. Just because it's now a more popular niche doesn't mean it's not a niche. It's a fairly large niche, but it's still a niche.

This is semantics, really, though I do respectfully disagree. To me, "niche" would be an XL315 owned just for CPLTs (for example, not suggesting that's the best answer), or how the XL295 felt when I owned it just for my -3L. Being the best engine for (at mimimum) eight (all FS9s, RVN-3L, BJ-1X and JR7-O) variants and possibly as many as eleven (other Jenners), is too widely useful to call "niche." But semantic fine hairs and we all think it's a good engine, I think, which is the main point.