32 replies to this topic

[Jon Gotham]

Autobot9000, on 25 October 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

This is where you're wrong. Moving in a large group doesn't imply that you're using a specific tactical formation like a ball. People will still use cover and terrain adequately.

Also the general theme of your post is an inaccurate description of what players do in MWO. The best tactic in MWO is to use one large group for anything slow (say for example slower than 130 kph). Usually it's a good idea to have most light mechs branch out of the big group and do tasks like capping points, TAGging opponents, spotting or denying LRM usage by using ECM on the enemy group.

Why is MWO this way? Because the game modes dictate this. There simply is no advantage for splitting up as the above mentioned tactic can fully accomplish both assault and capture mode. On the other hand there are harsh disadvantages, if you do a different tactic than the one mentioned above against a group that does follow it as pointed out above by others. If PGI added game modes, where firepower was needed in several locations of the map at once forcing the ball to split into task forces, then other tactics would be used.

I respectfully disagree.
Every single time I have seen a blob fail it's because they were hit from at least 2 directions at once. Every single time my lance has flanked and the team has actually moved when enemy turn-we have utterly mauled the enemy blob.
Sticking together in one big amorphous mass only ever works in one scenario-when you are ALL on voice comms and ALL shoot SAME target at SAME TIME.

The pug blob is just poisonous, a hated despicable thing!

On the flip side, flanking fails when your team just WILL NOT MOVE even when they have numerical/firepower advantage. Had a great example last night. Our lance breaks away from the blob, we flank and draw 6 mechs away from the caldera (on caustic) that left 8 vs 6 in Caldera. Our team had 5 assaults and 3 heavies vs their mediums/lights. Meanwhile our 3 man medium lance and 1 light manage to mash the enemy assaults HARD. They are all bashed up-but sad fact here is...our team just sat behind the rim. Just sat and hid, not daring to move one inch.....this is after the watch the 6 turn their backs on them....REALLY?
Result? We eventually went down.......leaving it 12 vs 8......our glorious heavy/assault hidden cowards then only kill TWO of the twelve getting surrounded and mauled in the process....STILL failing to move one jiffy.
A few of them then DARE to have the audacity to blame us for breaking away from the blob!


This stupid, hiding, cowering blob fiasco has to STOP. Your mechs have legs and sensors, you have map in the corner of the screen. You have basic text chat to communicate.
USE IT.


/rant over. Whew!

[Sargonnas77]

As a newer player, it's rare I can find a PUG group that doesn't employ this tactic. I typically play with a group of 3 other gaming friends, and as others have stated before, even when we try to lance off and get around to the backside of the enemy group, most often we will just end up downing maybe 1 mech from behind, before their "ball of death" turns 180, burns our mechs down in a few seconds, and turns 180 again to continue "sieging" our ball of death. Turmaline Desert I think is the worst example of this as both groups seem to run to the same opposing ridge and attempt to snipe each other to death. This, even as there are multiple routes to easily flank the opposing team.

I do notice a LOT of solo'ers in these groups as well, that will use the previously mentioned pinpoint high damage build to get the max kills/points they can without a whole lot of concern for actually winning the match.

Edited for poor spelling and grammar.

Edited by Sargonnas77, 28 October 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Sargonnas77, on 28 October 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

As a newer player, it's rare I can find a PUG group that doesn't employ this tactic. I typically play with a group of 3 other gaming friends, and as others have stated before, even when we try to lance off and get around to the backside of the enemy group, most often we will just end up downing maybe 1 mech from behind, before their "ball of death" turns 180, burns our mechs down in a few seconds, and turns 180 again to continue "sieging" our ball of death. Turmaline Desert I think is the worst example of this as both groups seem to run to the same opposing ridge and attempt to snipe each other to death. This, even as there are multiple routes to easily flank the opposing team.

I do notice a LOT of solo'ers in these groups as well, that will use the previously mentioned pinpoint high damage build to get the max kills/points they can without a whole lot of concern for actually winning the match.

Edited for poor spelling and grammar.

Been my experience tonight mate. My clan wasn't online so I played alone. Played 18 games and had 18 blobs. Talking to people in the games yielded the following:
Players actually believe that staying in blob gives them better chance to win. Tonight, every time my team lost it was due to being flanked from 2+directions. It seems the playerbase just won't learn, and it is very frustrating to watch. There seems to be this almost paranoid thought process going on.
What I don't understand is, when people see flanking working...i.e flanking killing them-surely they must see it works?

[Sargonnas77]

In direct reply kamiko, the 4 in my group that are playing nightly are getting a lot better now, and have been running a mixed lance as far as tonnage goes. Last night was the first time we were able to lance off and have an actual impact on the battle. Was great fun, and a WIN for once, so there is hope. I just hope Piranha can give us some fleshed out social features. Kinda stinks having your lance made out kinda well, but still getting steam rolled by blob-v-blob warfare. Would be nice to be able to group with other friendly lances, and not just run 4 or 12 man groups.

Also, as always, flanking means actually exposing your shiny new heavily armored death machine to incoming fire. I TRULY think a lot of people are afraid of scratching their pretty paint jobs.

Edited for additional thought bubble after a few beers

Edited by Sargonnas77, 30 October 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Sephlock]

Sargonnas77, on 30 October 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

In direct reply kamiko, the 4 in my group that are playing nightly are getting a lot better now, and have been running a mixed lance as far as tonnage goes. Last night was the first time we were able to lance off and have an actual impact on the battle. Was great fun, and a WIN for once, so there is hope. I just hope Piranha can give us some fleshed out social features. Kinda stinks having your lance made out kinda well, but still getting steam rolled by blob-v-blob warfare. Would be nice to be able to group with other friendly lances, and not just run 4 or 12 man groups.

Also, as always, flanking means actually exposing your shiny new heavily armored death machine to incoming fire. I TRULY think a lot of people are afraid of scratching their pretty paint jobs.

Edited for additional thought bubble after a few beers

Just don't lose your minds and start murdering teammates if you suddenly get placed in different lances.

[Just wanna play]

wouldn't a group be able to sequential tear through a spread out team,, especially if there is terrain in between each player??

[Vanguard319]

wintersborn, on 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Higher numbers win.

Basically in 12 man Assault PUG's you want to roll in a tight group and all focus fire on one mech at a time, thus decreasing the other teams numbers fast. This gang r_ape effect works too well in this game and unless some one wins from playing "Cap Warrior" the steam rolling team most always wins.

Same reason why high pinpoint alpha damage builds are king, they kill fast.

Not necessarily, a smaller force can win if it exploits it's strengths, and the other sides weaknesses. Terrain can be a major factor if used properly as well. I was in a scramble last night on crimson strait, My lance mates and I moved to cover the "saddle" while the rest of the team took the long way. We not only repelled a light force that tried to cap rush immediately, but our sniping caused the other team to position themselves to wipe us out. They never got the chance though, as our teammates moved on their flank and devoured them in detail. Our team won because the other team fixated on eliminating a small picket line that used terrain to it's advantage, and failed to wipe it out before the main force attacked.

The Giant ball of death is hard to counter, but not impossible. The most practical solution is to send a light force to cap, while the main force engages and uses terrain to draw the battle out. Either the death ball has to send fast units back to base to stop the cap, weakening it or they have to bull their way through the defenders to counter cap, and risk being mauled in the process.

[Duncan Longwood]

Blobs in this game are good and bad; some are vicious wolf packs, others are sheep herds. Positioning is a very big deal in this game and can determine which one you are a part of in a pug drop.

I feel that the speed of your mech should tell you where in the blob you should be:

70kph or less is the heart of the blob as they have to keep their spacing tight in order to support each other. If these slow mechs spread out too far, they will become easy targets for the enemies light mechs. Forming a blob is only natural at these speeds. Maintaining spacing is key to unleashing the blobs full potential firepower.

70-100kph should be moving from one side of the blob to the other to offer support where needed while having the ability to retreat back into the pack quickly. Look at your map and find isolated targets that are towards the edge of your blob and move to wipe them out. You have the speed to tangle them up while the blob comes to your aid. If you find yourself at a disadvantage or in a fair fight you should retreat back to your group and try to find targets where you adding your mech to the fight gives your team a 2-on-1 advantage.

Fast mechs should be a roving wolf pack that guides where the blob goes and lures targets back to the blob. Scouting... well, let's just say I appreciate it when you bring a BAP and/or TAG so that the little red triangles show up sooner and I know where to go to pick a fight. No need to type, just make the triangles show up and your work is done.

If you hate the blob, I would recommend going with a mech in the 70-100kph range in the medium/heavy weight class that you can use as mobile fire support.

[Jon Gotham]

Just wanna play, on 30 October 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

wouldn't a group be able to sequential tear through a spread out team,, especially if there is terrain in between each player??

If "spread out" then yes. But in groups of four? Not really.
Blobs can be utterly smashed by using same tactics Wolves use. One side darts in and baits them, the blob turns then promptly gets hit in the back by the other side pack. And that's just 2 lances put a third in and that's 3 directions the blob has to shoot in.......
The amount of times I have seen blobs go down to this is insane. Yet, blobs still keep forming. People still keep repeating safety in numbers, group up for win etc. ...when actuality says otherwise....
Sticking together does not always mean one big mass. A lot of the time, it's counter productive to the extreme.

[CrashieJ]

RESPAWNS ARE THE REASON

[Wil McCullough]

blobs are fine until there's a choke point. then it's just shooting fish in a barrel for the other team.
which always seems to be the case.

[Sargonnas77]

As I gain experience in this game, literally, not gxp, blobs are definitely 1, terrible, but 2, the way the game moves imo, atm. Unless you have voice chat between everyone on your team, there is just about no way to com any strategy, and even if I/we/anyone attempts to, it's usually ignored.

[Nick Hades]

its all about los, and range. mwo= {Scrap} los and range. so if you split up and your buddy gets jumped you cant help. but on the other hand if you are grouped up because of bad maps, los, and range. at least focus fire and kill, its really not that hard

Edited by Nick Hades, 31 October 2013 - 04:24 PM.