15 replies to this topic

[Rando Slim]

Copied from a post I made in the medium battlemech strat forum to gain extra responses since stuff posted here gets looked at a bit more. I'm still plenty new enough to justify using this part of the forum I think so here goes.

Alright so I need some help here: With the stupid c-bill nerf, I am in a tough spot. I need 1 more treb variant to begin to elite and master them. I have 4.2 mil c-bills. I really like JJ capable mechs so the 7m sounds cool but is another 3.5 mil c-bills away (not including weapon costs). I could buy the 7k now and only be about 2 or 3 mil c-bills away from building it however I want, I also like the idea of 2 ballistic slots. But it has no JJ. But I also want to be saving for another Dragon variant or a Quickdraw. But my premium time runs out in 1.3 days. Can't make up my mind other than that I know I don't want a 5N, its just another 3c without all the fancy stuff on it. Oh and I will probably not be buying a new engine whichever I choose, I'm just gonna drop my xl300 or 280 out of another mech to use. Someday when i'm a real MW I plan on putting an xl 325 in there because I can switch that in turn to a dragon or quickdraw if I want.

I'll probably let this go for 1-2 pages before making the decision.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 08 August 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Spheroid]

The 5N is actually much better than the 3C in most regards save the engine cap. I do not recommend the 7K.

[Redshift2k5]

so to be clear, you own a 3C and a 5J? What build(s) do you run in theme, and what do you enjoy? What would you change if you could change them?


5n - Basically the same but cheap
7m - One extra missile hardpoint; NARC tube with 1 slot. Otherwise same/inferior. Expensive.
7k - The ugly ducking Trebuchet, it doesn't perform the same as any other Treb. Cheap.

It looks to me like the only real option here is the 7K, and only if you focus on it's ballistic hardpoints. A typical build for this mech is the meta-compliant Gauss rifle + ERPPC but there are other options. It does make a relatively stable sniping platform and the energy/ballistic mounts line up with each other (being in the two side torsos)

If you don't want the 7K's ballistic chest, then your best option is the el cheapo 5N with the same/similar build as your other Trebs

Edited by Redshift2k5, 08 August 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Koniving]

I'm sure you know this already, but given it's a topic on Trebuchets I think it's worth relaying here.

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Now, at one point I talked with a new player. She played MW2 and MW3 only, knew almost nothing of tabletop. The topic was Trebuchet and its height.

I told her when she was choosing the Centurion, that its natural duty is to defend the Trebuchet. I then asked her about the Trebuchet's height compared to an Atlas, even though the Treb is half the weight. I was standing next to one to demonstrate

Her response was this: "It might be the same height but it's a lot skinnier. Just the arms make it look big. You said the Trebuchet's natural function is to lob LRMs, right?"
"Right."
"Then it needs to be tall to help it shoot LRMs over hills, much like my little brother's Hunchback 4J's launcher compared to his other Hunchbacks and their Hunches."
"But people throw on SRMs and brawl with it."
"That's their own fault."

So I asked her, "What about the Centurion? It's almost as tall as a Highlander and twice as wide as a Trebuchet."
"You just said it's a Treb's bodyguard. Well then it has to be able to take abuse in the Treb's place. Since I was reading about it last night, the Centurion's also supposed to be able to dodge to the side, grab things with its arm, and isn't supposed to fight close range anyway. The game needs a button to let me bring that shield in front of me in different positions."

Just food for thought.

Sadly, while I own all the Trebuchets, I've never actually used them. Been waiting for the flight patterns (not paths, patterns) of LRMs to be fixed. So I only have experience on the 7k.

Back when MGs were "worthless" at 0.4 damage per second.

Edited by Koniving, 08 August 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

I have the j, k, and n. The J is my main. N is nice but don't brawl in it. The K is unusual, but okay. Get it but do not put close range weapons in it. I took out the PPC and put in a large laser and medium(two energy slots there). And left the autocannon. Might not be a bad idea to put guass there. Get endo-steel, ferro fibrous, double heat sinks, add a sink and more armor and you get a decent long to mid range direct fire support mech. But it still isn't a brawler. Get your XP and then sell it off if you don't like it. Besides at least you get a little bit of familiarity with that kind of weapons grouping when you move to the larger mechs.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 08 August 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[heleqin]

i really like the 7k, i originally build mine as a slight modification to stock, upgraded the ppc to ER and upgraded the SRM2 to a pair of SSRM2s. i've looked into modifying it post SSRM changes, but i'm pretty happy with where its at.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7b67a331c3340fc

it does play totally different than the other Trebs, which is a good thing in my book, as i like variety. the K is extremely flexible, but using all of the hardpoints is tricky unless you go with machine guns (don't) but there are a lot of options if you're ok with using less of some than others. It will take 2 AC5, 2 Mlas, 5 tons of ammo and a XL300 if you skip the missiles (which isn't all that painful given the 2 tube limitations). Or if you want to use machine guns, it'll take 2 PPCs or big energy weapons of your choice, and have room for missiles and/or as many DHS as you can fit (or even max armor).

my only other experience in Trebs is with the 5J and the 7M. i sold the J after basics, its mostly a laser boat with jump jets, and i didn't find a build that worked for me.

the M i kept, its more of a missile platform, and i ran mine with 2 SSRM and a LRM 15. i haven't really taken the time to re-work it, i think the SSRMs need to go, but i'm not sure what i'll do with the Narc tube, it may go all SRM and get a SRM 2 in the narc slot.

[Nebelfeuer]

The 7m is worth it if you like the JJ - besides it comes with DH and endosteele already that you would probably buy anyway before having fun with the other variants.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 08 August 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Rando Slim]

Redshift2k5, on 08 August 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

so to be clear, you own a 3C and a 5J? What build(s) do you run in theme, and what do you enjoy? What would you change if you could change them?


5n - Basically the same but cheap
7m - One extra missile hardpoint; NARC tube with 1 slot. Otherwise same/inferior. Expensive.
7k - The ugly ducking Trebuchet, it doesn't perform the same as any other Treb. Cheap.

It looks to me like the only real option here is the 7K, and only if you focus on it's ballistic hardpoints. A typical build for this mech is the meta-compliant Gauss rifle + ERPPC but there are other options. It does make a relatively stable sniping platform and the energy/ballistic mounts line up with each other (being in the two side torsos)

If you don't want the 7K's ballistic chest, then your best option is the el cheapo 5N with the same/similar build as your other Trebs

Yep, I own a 3c and a 5j. My builds are similar. I use all weapon hardpoints. 3c has 4mplas and 2 srm6 with artemis, 14DHS, Endo and an xl300. 16 DHS and no artemis sometimes. The 5j has 3jj, same engine, 1 srm6, 5mplas, endo, 16 or 17 DHS depending on how much ammo I want.

If the 7k could jump it would be a no-brainer i'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'm still trying to buy different mechs and find things I like. I have a Dragon 1c with a gauss rifle and I really like it. I have a BJ-1 with either 2 AC/2s or a LB-10 x and I like it also. I'm not too picky at this point about what weapons to use or what hardpoints go where, I just learn each mech and its quirks as I try them. I haven't found a mech yet I truly hate. I'm not sure what I'll do with the 7m because at 50 tons fitting 3 lrm 15s is too heavy. I have no idea when or on what I'll ever use the xl 250 it comes with that makes it so expensive. That being said if theres anything I could change about my 3c, it would be to give it jumpjets, if theres anything I could change about the 5j, it would be to trade a laser for a missile hardpoint. I tend to make brawler/flanker builds, the faster the better, jumping preferred. But the few times I've used distance ballistics, it has served me well I see why everyone uses them.

EDIT: Spheroid, I'm curious why you think the 5N is better than the 3c, they look identical to me other than that the 5n is cheaper.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 08 August 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[Spheroid]

Scrotacus 42, on 08 August 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

EDIT: Spheroid, I'm curious why you think the 5N is better than the 3c, they look identical to me other than that the 5n is cheaper.

better torso range on the 5N
Quirks for TBT-5N

Torso Yaw 115°
Arm Yaw 15°
Torso Pitch 25°
Arm Pitch 40°
Torso Yaw Speed 100°/s
Arm Yaw Speed 225°/s
Torso Pitch Speed 56°/s
Arm Pitch Speed 225°/s
Quirks for TBT-3C

Torso Yaw 90°
Arm Yaw 15°
Torso Pitch 25°
Arm Pitch 40°
Torso Yaw Speed 120°/s
Arm Yaw Speed 270°/s
Torso Pitch Speed 67°/s
Arm Pitch Speed 270°/s

Edited by Spheroid, 08 August 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[John MatriX82]

I used 3C, 5N and 5J, skipped the 7M because it would have been useful with streaks, but I knew SSRMs would have been nerfed sooner or later so I've never employed it.

Atm I own only the 5J; the 3C besides the engine is somewhat awkward with that single ct energy hardpoint, 5N is better for brawling has the same number of hardpoints with better displacement with more arm and torso twist.. and the higher engine rating limit in the 3C will never be correctly employed, anything beyond a 300 (xl) makes the thing go around with a light-like armament without being as fast as a light and pretty paper-made, or you're limited to dual LRM15 with few ammo and very limited backup weapons.
So if you want to go cheap go for the 5J and the 5N, avoid the 7K, an HBK 4H can do much better things than the 7K, those arm-mounted single tube missiles are rather useless.

[Joseph Mallan]

Redshift2k5, on 08 August 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

so to be clear, you own a 3C and a 5J? What build(s) do you run in theme, and what do you enjoy? What would you change if you could change them?


5n - Basically the same but cheap
7m - One extra missile hardpoint; NARC tube with 1 slot. Otherwise same/inferior. Expensive.
7k - The ugly ducking Trebuchet, it doesn't perform the same as any other Treb. Cheap.

It looks to me like the only real option here is the 7K, and only if you focus on it's ballistic hardpoints. A typical build for this mech is the meta-compliant Gauss rifle + ERPPC but there are other options. It does make a relatively stable sniping platform and the energy/ballistic mounts line up with each other (being in the two side torsos)

If you don't want the 7K's ballistic chest, then your best option is the el cheapo 5N with the same/similar build as your other Trebs

The 7K Performed well for my Kurita Alt. Upgraded to an AC10, switched to 2 Mediums an 2 SSRM2. 250 XL and full armor with Endo.

[Leesin]

People dismiss the 7K but the past 4 matches with mine I have got between 400-500 dmg and at least 2 kills a match, using a build that makes me giggle.

As the 7K only has 2 launch tubes for its missiles, I have put on 2 SRM6's, meaning it fires 12 srm6's in volleys of two, aslong as you can aim, which isn't difficult, you will shake their cockpit around hard. Combine this with an AC/5 and you have the ability to skirmish aswell as even more cockpit shake in close encounters.

You've got to use it smartly, ambush enemies close, hit and run or assisting a friendly mech already engaged. Treb is a big target and is not made for brawling, but if you keep their cockpit shaking and maneuever well you can tear up heavier mechs whilst they struggle to even see you let alone damage you. It's also a great way to support your team mates as the enemy will struggle to shoot them too when you're hitting them with a chain of missiles and the AC/5.

Using this build with a 300xl and speed tweak will give you 106kph, enough speed to get you into good positions for ambushes and skirmishing. The main weakness to this build is the lack of weapons to fight Lights, but if you can aim well you can score hits with the AC 5 and if the Light comes too close the 2xSRM6's can hit them pretty good as they fire rapidly in sets of 2 allowing you to score some hits.

EDIT: Oh yeh forgot to say I am using about 304 armour and with Endo Steel you can use the CASE with 8 ton of ammo split between the AC/5 and 2x SRM6's how you see fit, I personally go 4 each at the moment. Already had DHS on the mech so it's sitting at 1.93 heat efficiency with only the engines heatsinks and none extra put in, it will never overheat unless you sit in Mordors lava.

Edited by Leesin, 18 October 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[DONTOR]

Ive seen effective 7K bulds using a gauss and erppc could be fun. Itll let u sit back and snipe which is always a fun way to mix things up.

SCROTACUS 42, BADASS SIGNATURE BTW

Edited by DONTOR, 18 October 2013 - 06:29 AM.

[SonOfAgony]

mobile LRM, a glass cannon is the most effective use of the Treb IMO.

[scJazz]

The Trebuchets hold a special place in my heart The 5J and 7M were the first two Mechs I got to Elite.

This is the Treb I settled on TBT-7M

It is the more expensive but the XL250 can come in handy. I always purchase the Variant with an XLEngine if one is available. Saves CB in the long run even though the upfront cost is higher. The other Trebs include 1.5m worth of STD250 engine, except the one with the XL300. If you are like me you have some STD250s already.

[MavRCK]

My tier list lists the different variants and there is a discussion of the variants in one video or multiple videos. It's for these type of questions, I made the tier list so you can best decide which suit your play-style and / or future considerations.