17 replies to this topic

[Cycleboy]

Those who were here for the original knockdown remember Jenner's kneecapping Atlai, DragonBowl Z, and tripping all over each other. I understand this balance issue may be too tough. But how about some speed reduction???

Bumping and rubbing through/past another war behemoth sounds like "difficult terrain". A modest (40%?) 2 second max speed drop for contacting vertical polygons (building edges, other mechs) would keep speed freaks from bashing through other mechs, giving those mechs time to turn and attempt to fire. Additionally, use that JJ shake for 1sec if you are more than 15tons lighter than the object you struck... you rung your own bell there.

I think this would keep the rage against swarms bumping and bashing through heavy/assault mechs, stopping them in their tracks from collision, then circling. But I don't think any of those penalties are the death sentence of falling over in front of a dakka-phract.

Edited by Cycleboy, 16 October 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[Sandpit]

i've never understood why they don't just take out the damage portion of collisions and actual knockdowns until it's fixed and just treat it as wall when you hit another mech and then have a slow down for a split second. Lights can run into, around, and through bigger mechs with impunity as it is

[Kraven Kor]

I've been advocating the same.

Collisions should do appropriate damage, should send the smaller mech "reeling" but not knock them down or stun lock them, while the larger mech should be less effected.

A locust that rams an Atlas should deal and take 10 to 20 points of damage, and spend 3 to 5 seconds with less control and a bit of a sway to its walk, while the Atlas should barely notice. Two Atlai which collide should take 20 to 30 points of damage (speed matters) and each have an "equal and opposite effect" on each other.

Ramming from behind should accelerate the rammed mech a bit, ramming head on should be a dead stop for two equal weight mechs, while a heavier mech ramming a lighter mech should push through the lighter mech or end up with a dead stop if the weight and momentum balance out. Ramming from the side or clipping the side should send a mech staggering sideways a bit.

TL;DR Knockdowns suck, but physics matter. Collisions should have an interesting physics effect but no stun lock.

[Ryokens leap]

As well as jj-ing face first into cliffs and buildings. This should result in collision and fall damage.

[Kraven Kor]

Ryokens leap, on 16 October 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

As well as jj-ing face first into cliffs and buildings. This should result in collision and fall damage.

Well, it currently does the latter, if you fall far enough.

But I agree.

[Livewyr]

It already does slow you down.. doesn't stop crotch-sniffing Jenners.

Solution is, sliding scale, equally awarded damage based on speed of collision (minus the angle) and knockdowns for very high speed collisions.

Already posted an idea to deal with Dragonbowl Z and the crotchsniffing Jenners.

[Firewuff]

Kraven Kor, on 16 October 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

A locust that rams an Atlas should deal and take 10 to 20 points of damage, and spend 3 to 5 seconds with less control and a bit of a sway to its walk, while the Atlas should barely notice. Two Atlai which collide should take 20 to 30 points of damage (speed matters) and each have an "equal and opposite effect" on each other.

A locust taking 20 points of damage is instant death... just saying. Damage shoudl be proportional to the combined releative speeds with a minimum threshold. i.e. 2 mechs both doing 60 hitting head on (combined 120km/h) will do saw 6damage but one hitting the other at 90 deg (combined linear velocity of 60) only does 3 points. Lights need to be careful as their speed increases damage but not so much that they die if they accidently ram.

bounce and deflection should also occur... not too hard to implement

[focuspark]

I like this. A simple fix that doesn't add any game breaking changes.

+ 1

[Cycleboy]

I've seen lots of posts... some calling for knockdown to come back. I thought that some slow speed and JJ shake for a couple sec would at least be a nice BABY STEP for this. I've seen more comprehensive posts (Livewyr, Kraven), but it just doesn't seem that full out comprehensive changes implement too well with MWO. I'll start with slowing them down for a couple sec so I can swing on them, and giving them some Dramamine-resistant vertigo.

[focuspark]

Honestly, I think knockdown is a craptastic, unfun mechanic. I don't look forward to it at all.

That said, having something to reduce the ease of leg humping would be good.

Still Assault pilots are supposed to be annoyed and a little afraid of light mechs.

[Lokesh]

+1

TT had various times that you needed to make a piloting role. It would be nice to see some simulation of that - be it getting slowed, shaking or having your torso twisted out of alignment after you do something crazy.

...I wasn't around for the knockdown, but actually falling down seems like it could be an awesome mechanic if done right.

[Whatzituyah]

It was the shear force of the weapon that truly knocked a mech down in MechWarrior 4! But if a mech fell from above with heavy weight it did the same thing this was called "Death from above" obviously the difference of how heavy the mech was matters in that situation. The Knock Down with the weapons however is better if used with one of the Auto Cannon weapons in MW4. But even if the weapon didn't Knock Down the mech it will make its torso turn the other direction because of the force of the weapon.

[Cycleboy]

Lokesh, on 17 October 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

+1

TT had various times that you needed to make a piloting role. It would be nice to see some simulation of that - be it getting slowed, shaking or having your torso twisted out of alignment after you do something crazy.

...I wasn't around for the knockdown, but actually falling down seems like it could be an awesome mechanic if done right.

This here is the sticky wicket. What you missed was... Jenners going 120kph into the legs of an Atlas, knocking both to the ground, and while the 3-5sec it took for the Atlas to stand up, those trailing the Jenner put everything into the big bad boy that couldn't even torso twist back let alone shoot.

[CrashieJ]

Firewuff, on 17 October 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

A locust taking 20 points of damage is instant death... just saying.

there are such things as "Kamakaze" runs in Battletech

no weapons? no life? no problem.

[Firewuff]

I do have memories of doing something like that with a Spider class mech againts an Atlas in the TT back in the day, rolling stupid crit and killing it and myself in the process....... memories

[Cycleboy]

Careful, or we will get the "Kai overload switch".

[Whatzituyah]

Cycleboy, on 18 October 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Careful, or we will get the "Kai overload switch".

Or just a plain out self destruct switch to go along with Kamikaze.

[Steel Talon]

Knockdowns should be in game.
But rather a result of high powered inpacts than collisions.
Ex. AC/20 hitting upper part of light mech.