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Why Your "remove (Insert Name Here)" Is Wrong


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#61 Karl Streiger

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:39 PM

They should also add a penalty for blue on blue...you get 5bill per damage dealt at a enemy - so i think it is fair to remove 10-15 bills for every damage you dealt at a friend.

We all get less money - because blue on blue happens - but it will stop that people shoot at targets in full zoom without looking if there is a free LOS.
TK has to hurt.
I commit once a team kill in CB - when the income was less than actual (i can't remember if repair & rearm were still active) - the 10.000 C-Bills hurt me - much

BTT:
Remove things is never a good idea...because when you remove everything that worries players your game is just a nice CryEngine3 MechLab - without game modes or enemy to shoot at.

A bigger problem however are those guys that say - "fix that" and have lots of words and maths (or funny art :blink:) to prove their statement. But of course some of those statements are biased - they look objective only at the first glance

Edited by Karl Streiger, 22 October 2013 - 11:42 PM.


#62 Sandpit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 05:08 AM

View PostHavok1978, on 22 October 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

I still see absolutely no reason for film grain, and really i think there would only be a handful of actual trolls to champion the cause of keeping film grain, it is 100% end user effect, there is no disadvantage to removing it and there is no tactical advantage for removing it either. (unless not having eye strain is a tactical advantage)

however I would agree most of it needs to be left although alot of adjustments need to be made, such as the lance rearrangement by "pug commanders".. if a premade drops into a match then their lance should be locked unless they deselect the "lock".

The ready button is part of a future framework and I understand that, however there are times guys are literally holding up an entire game cuz they will not ready up... some of these times they are chatting or just being ******* and will even announce into general chat they are doing it on purpose.

I would suggest that like many other games, a "kick" button be implemented and a "map select" button be implemented as well. Map select could be handled via 75% ratio of votes, with a map being ineligible to be played twice in a row.
just some thoughts.


My main point is that calling for the removal of things in blanket terms is ridiculous. I'm trying to get people to realize that, that is not productive or constructive. Instead of them calling for removal come up with ideas that would fix the issue. I didn't link them because I didn't want to single people out or make this into a name and shame or anything like that. You can easily search the word remove on the forums if anyone doubts this list though.

#63 Taynak

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

This is an AWESOME POST!!!! Thank you OP.. you make a great point. that being said.... i hate the capture victory on assault.... waste of time IMO.... had to put that in sorry... lol

#64 Bartholomew bartholomew

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

Most people saying remove this have been killed by or lost because of it. Most of them probably want a single player game with a god mode cheat. And feel that if you don't lay down and die while letting them win the way they want it is just ssssoooooo not fair..

#65 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:50 PM

View PostBartholomew bartholomew, on 24 October 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Most of them probably want a single player game with a god mode cheat


In other words...

Topic: Remove the other players.... ? ;)

Edit: clarification?

Edited by Shar Wolf, 24 October 2013 - 08:51 PM.


#66 Sandpit

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:11 AM

lol I never really thought about it like that but yea I guess the ones calling for single player in an MMO would be asking for the removal of other players which would definitely be on the extreme side

#67 Gruinhardt

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostSandpit, on 16 October 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

So I've gotten into a few "discussions" today in the various "Remove this" threads popping up on the forums. Just as an example I have started a list to help prove a point

Locusts
Spiders
Quickdraws
HBK-4P
Catapult-A1
Highlanders

TK Penalty
Film Grain
Convergence
Waiting Period for Mechs still in matches
Pop Tarting
Pinpoint Damage

RC Map
Frozen Map
Crimson Strait map
Alpine Map
FC Map
Terra Therma Map
Caustic Valley

Kills as a Victory Condition
Capping as a Victory Condition (Thanks to Roadbeer)

Single heatsinks
Double Heatsinks
Heat Scale
Engine heat Sink Requirements
Hit Boxes

Artemis
SSRMs
PPCs
AC2
UAC5
Small Lasers
AMS
MGs
Gauss rifles
Alpha Strikes
LRM Min Range

FF Armor
Hardpoints
Coolant Flush
Company Command button
Lance Command button

Testing Grounds
Conquest game mode
Assault game mode
Air strikes

ECM
TAG
Hero Mechs (all of them)
the ready button
Pilot Skills
Ghost Heat
Arms from mechs
JJ Shake

Smoke on the battlefield
Gauss Charge
Capture Points
Trial Mechs
Atlases from Trial Mech Rotation
Premades
Boar's Head
ELO
Seismic
Entire Mechlab (one of my personal favs)
Missile Bay Doors

4 man groups
12 man groups
Gyros
Any and All Actuators
Mouse and Keyboard control options (Joysticks only)
Guaranteed C-Bills for winning or losing
Daily Double Rewards
Forum Posting for Players
Lance Adjustment in ready screen
Edit: Added More Items seen today on forums


These are just the things I found in a quick search. I will add to the list as others are found.

Now, before you post a "remove" thread I'd like you to let this list soak in for a minute. If everything on this list was actually removed, what would be left? I wanted to have a visual representation of why this is ridiculous.

Just because you have an issue with something in the game or think something is broken and/or needs to be fixed doesn't mean it should be removed entirely from the game. I understand that everyone feels they have valid reasons as to why they would request this but the point remains that if they really did remove everything that players requested we would have no game.

So instead of asking for something to be removed try posting on what the issue is and how it can be fixed in a constructive manner. If you have an idea for a fix or revamp of something then post THAT instead of calling for a complete removal of something


AC40 mechs
matchmaker
boats (missile, energy, ballistics)

Someone is always complaining, "I lost X matches in a row". Never considering the problem may be themselves. What they want are predictable targets.

#68 Sandpit

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:33 PM

View PostGruinhardt, on 25 October 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:


AC40 mechs
matchmaker
boats (missile, energy, ballistics)

Someone is always complaining, "I lost X matches in a row". Never considering the problem may be themselves. What they want are predictable targets.

I'm not even concerned with the why they request it lol

#69 Sandpit

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

had to add the AC5 today lol

#70 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:44 PM

Wait.... REALLY!?!?!?
Someone wanted to remove the AC5 of all things???

Wow.... that is..... really sad :P
Please tell me it was a troll post -- not a serious one.

#71 Sandpit

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:41 AM

no, it was serious. Just search the word remove to find most of these although some sit on front pages in various sections. I think my personal favorites at the moment are "eliminate poptarting", but I digress. It's just a list to hopefully get people to think before their first suggestion is to "remove" something from the game and lead to some actual constructive ideas

#72 aniviron

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:48 AM

I dare you to find me a single person who prefers film grain as opposed to nothing. At any rate, I have yet to meet anyone who has played with it both on and off who doesn't massively prefer it off.

Just saying that it's not always a needless whine to ask for something removed, or in the case of film grain, at least an option to remove it.

#73 Sandpit

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:55 AM

View Postaniviron, on 27 October 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

I dare you to find me a single person who prefers film grain as opposed to nothing. At any rate, I have yet to meet anyone who has played with it both on and off who doesn't massively prefer it off.

Just saying that it's not always a needless whine to ask for something removed, or in the case of film grain, at least an option to remove it.


That's not the point. I understand that there's a few things on there that many (maybe even majority?) would love to have removed but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to or that posting a "remove" thread is any different regardless of the subject matter. Instead of saying "remove film grain" how about suggesting it is an option that you can toggle so that ONE (I'm sure there might be a few here and there) that might enjoy it can, or whatever visual rendering it might cut down on so that people on lower end machines can play. THIS is my point.

#74 Levon K

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:07 AM

Sandpit.. awesome post bro ! (Sorry just saw it now on the "headlines")

AAA post.

This game needs *more* not less. This game also needs more humour and less QQ.. nice work :P

#75 Sandpit

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:25 AM

View PostLevon K, on 27 October 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

This game also needs more humour and less QQ.. nice work :P

This would also be one of my goals. Some people take themselves way too seriously. I've been a Btech fan and player for near 30 years. I've played every inception of the MW and MC series both competitively in leagues and for fun, I adore this IP and want nothing more than for it to succeed and give me many moons of pleasant mech piloting experiences. I was a commando for FASA back in the day, I love stompy mechs and I can understand that some are just trying to be passionate about an IP they enjoy but they forget there's a wider audience that PGI also has to account for. Then there's those that have no idea about the history of MW and Btech in general. They could care less about the lore, history, and rich story behind that stompy mech they're shooting people with. They don't understand that many of use have spent decades spending money, supporting, and otherwise helping ensure the game we are playing today is even here. (That has nothing to do with founders, that has to do with decades before a founders program was even thought of)

#76 Nathan Bloodguard

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

View PostThe Justicar, on 19 October 2013 - 12:24 AM, said:

You don't fix ghost heat. We've been down this road before. That's how we GOT ghost heat. Its a fix to a prior fix. The fix is to stop pretending like neutrality is the problem. Fix the system, don't introduce some random senseless mechanic that NO NEW PLAYER will even know about let alone understand.

Yes, I have taken up the anti-ghost heat torch. Why? Because it is absolutely core to how the game works. Most of the problems we have concerning combat right now stem from one of two causes: a broken heat system (which has only gotten worse) and HSR (which has improved greatly). Believe it or not, there ARE things in this game that could be removed for the benefit of all. Ghost heat is the prime example. Anybody--and yes I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON--who is not against ghost heat 1) doesn't care about, or 2) doesn't understand the issue. The exception here is PGI: they simply refuse to admit how wrong they are. You don't fix ghost heat. You fix the heat system itself. Ghost heat is a patch that has failed at its intended purpose. If you're making a website and screw up, you don't write 200 lines of php or whatever you're writing just to hide the problem (GHOST HEAT), you FIX THE PROBLEM. Multiple players have laid out entire systems that function better than ghost heat, hell, I can think of one guy (he's homeless >.>) who actually wrote some damned code on pastie. We're trying to help! Just because you don't have a cause, just because you're apathetic about these debates, doesn't mean you have the right to sit on your imaginary high horse and mock the people that do.

You ARE insulting players like me. Players like Koniving and the dozens of others who crunch the numbers and show PGI all of these mathematical arguments about why ghost heat is a negative force in this game. You're insulting them by lumping them with the 12 year olds who cry about Atlases.

At this point I'm beating a dead horse, you don't care. You just want a long thread to put in your sig while farming likes, the direction of this game means nothing to you. Roadbeer, this thread is your "mob".

Peace.

Forgive me if I say something that has already been said or addressed in this thread already, but I have to respond to this.

First of all, this thread is not counterproductive to the community. It is only saying that you should look at the WHOLE picture before wanting something removed. Kinda like taking one leg from the kitchen table. You think that one leg wouldn't make that much of a difference, and the table will only be rocking. Little do you know, someone else just took a second leg from it. Does the table (with only four legs to start) still stand? He's just pointing out how many 'legs' people want to remove from this 'table' we call MWO. It doesn't matter the reason for the removal.

Secondly, I must ask you your opinion of why they put in ghost heat. I will state the reason why and I agree that something needed to happen to fix the original problem. It was implemented to stop or reduce people who boated weapons. Remember the 6 ppc stalker anyone? One shot and nearly anyone was dead, Two shots, and anyone would be toast. Now I do agree that ghost heat is annoying, and messes with my real life mechanics, but it is actually doing the job its supposed to do.

To wrap up my statement, if you want to remove ghost heat so badly, instead of telling us that it should be removed and leave it at that, why not suggest an alternate method of solving the problem that it "fixed". Some other mechanic that prevents or discourages people from boating all one weapon (or type of weapon like Er PPCs and PPCs)

As a final note that goes to topic here, that is the essence of what this thread is about. To suggest a fix and not remove, or an alternate form of fixing the problem (replacing with another mechanic to fix and then remove the old mechanic).

PS: thanks for "lumping" me into a category and "throwing me into a trash can" like everyone else.

#77 mouser42

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:41 PM

View PostCathy, on 17 October 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Why did they ask for Testing grounds to be removed..its harmless... :blink: :huh: :huh: :rolleyes: whats next...Puppies and Kittens ?
lol

#78 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:12 PM

View PostSandpit, on 27 October 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

no, it was serious.


I was sure you were.... but still :rolleyes:
I had done a search... couldn't find the one for the AC5... but the search engine doesn't like me either - half the time it cannot find my name! :blink: :ph34r:

#79 Sandpit

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:17 PM

If I get a chance I will search it out and pm the link to you. I won't link any to the lists because that might be borderline name and shame

#80 Tesunie

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:26 PM

View PostShar Wolf, on 28 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:


I was sure you were.... but still :ph34r:
I had done a search... couldn't find the one for the AC5... but the search engine doesn't like me either - half the time it cannot find my name! :blink: :rolleyes:


I say we should remove the Search Engine from the game! Oh... wait... :ph34r:





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