25 replies to this topic

[PopTootPoopShoot]

Yes, I am talking about the Dragon mechs. I am not certain if it is just the 5N or if other models have this issue, but I have played a few matches constantly getting dropped 1v1 by torso destruction faster than my Blackjack 1x mmkay. There is something wrong in the armor department when it comes to the Dragon-5N because I have migrated all of my torso armor to the front torso (accumulating roughly 70 armor on front, 16 on back) I never face my back to my enemies unless flanked. With 70 armor, and the fero fiberous upgrade I drop faster than a turkey on thanksgiving. While watching my armor I have noted all the damage is taken on my center, front torso. On the multiple occasions I went face to face with various mech they all either just happen to have 7 a/c 10s or 6 srm 6's or the Dragon is just not done right. Please look into this because there is some weird reason the dragon gets a torso destruction faster than you can say super sasslefras saturday. I am not happy with spending 2400 MC ending up with inept armor.

[DoktorVivi]

The problem is that the Dragon's center torso sticks out, significantly. Since you will usually get shot there, it's worth it to take XLs to give you better speed and maneuverability (so you can hopefully torso twist faster / escape before dying), since you usually won't lose a side torso.

In my experience, Dragons generally work well as strikers (hit and run), but not as well as brawlers. You want to use other mechs as a distraction so you can attack from the side / rear, then hide when they turn to get you and pop out somewhere else.

That said, you CAN go face-to-face with other mechs, but it takes a lot of practice / experience with the chassis. I'd recommend weapons that don't require significant amount of time on target (so you can burst damage, then torso twist away).

Also, as an aside, Ferro Fibrous does not actually increase armor. It's worded weirdly, but it basically just saves you weight (Endo Steel is far better in that department).

Edited by DoktorVivi, 16 October 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[One Medic Army]

As above:
The dragon has a huge CT, you hardly get hit anywhere else.

If you want to run a Dragon effectively, run it as a fast striker, 325XL or larger engine. Run either a high-alpha loadout and do drive-bys or a long-range loadout and pop+shoot using your high speed to minimize time out of cover (though IMHO a Jager does pop+snipe much better).

[edit] Ferro Fibrous armor does not protect any more than standard armor, it just weighs less.
70pts of Ferro armor will absorb 70pts of damage, same as 70pts of standard armor.

Edited by One Medic Army, 16 October 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[p8ragon]

Think of the dragon as a specialist unit. It's suited as a flanker. By that, I mean discretely flanking opponents, and letting off a gauss shot or two while the main force engages them. As soon as you fire once or twice, disengage. You have the advantage of mobility and speed. Don't try and brawl with it. **** never ends well that way

(I use my flame as a light hunter. Pair a gauss, 4 MLs with an xl 330)

[RandomLurker]

Anyone with decent aim can hit a Dragons CT from straight on out to about 20 degrees to the rear/side. It's ridiculously easy to hit. Only the Catapult is worse.

You can try to twist and use your arms for cover, but the nose just sticks out too far to be completely effective. It's a horribly fragile mech and that's that.

[PopTootPoopShoot]

So there is no weird bug or coding fault that makes me drop 10 times faster than a BJ-1X with 70 front CT armor? Other than that, thanks for the great advice guys. I do have it built as a sniper/striker mech, it has short range capabilities but I have capitalized on the Ballistics and started using a Gauss weapon so that I can snipe then defend or intimidate enemies crazy enough to rush me with two medium lasers and an srm 6. I tend to stick with a group of friendlies so that I am covered.

p8ragon, on 16 October 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

(I use my flame as a light hunter. Pair a gauss, 4 MLs with an xl 330)

That is exactly what I should have done, but the flame is 4500 MC and I was just searching for something new for under 3000.

[operator0]

Most Dragon drivers would agree that the Flame is the best Dragon. The Ballistic is mounted super high like the energy slots on the 1N and 1C. Run a Gauss in there with a 360XL and pop snipe like no other mech. The Jegars are great pop snipers because they can carry more than one ballistic, but they can't ridge hump as fast as a Dragon, and that's what makes the Flame so good at it. 4ML back the Gauss up. Do not, I repeat, do not try to brawl in it unless the enemy team is very weak and about to go down.

I love the Flame. It's a challenge most aren't willing to endure, but when you do get good at it and consistently put out 400+ damage, you can find solace in the fact that you are beating the snot out of other pilots in an "inferior" mech.

[PopTootPoopShoot]

I went with a Gauss PPC and S-SRM 2. I desperately need to upgrade my engine though, I'm using an STD 265 and I am far from saving enough to get an XL 300-400

[One Medic Army]

PopTootPoopShoot, on 16 October 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I went with a Gauss PPC and S-SRM 2. I desperately need to upgrade my engine though, I'm using an STD 265 and I am far from saving enough to get an XL 300-400

That explains a lot, once you get a bigger engine for that Dragon it'll perform much better.
Common engines I see are XL300, XL325, XL330, XL340, XL350 and XL360.
I'd suggest the XL325 or XL350 for Dragons, these sizes can be used effectively in a large number of other mechs as well, letting you get the most out of your CBills.

[PopTootPoopShoot]

One Medic Army, on 16 October 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

That explains a lot, once you get a bigger engine for that Dragon it'll perform much better.
Common engines I see are XL300, XL325, XL330, XL340, XL350 and XL360.
I'd suggest the XL325 or XL350 for Dragons, these sizes can be used effectively in a large number of other mechs as well, letting you get the most out of your CBills.

what about this build? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f4fdefb04c233c

Edited by PopTootPoopShoot, 16 October 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[KAT Ayanami]

A Dragon is like a Honda.

Had
One
Never
Did
Again.

[Davoke]

I would suggest a super-fast assault support mech, i run mine like so:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c89f6b187c694d6
It's got a good punch up-close, and is very agile.

[Zanathan]

The dragon is my favourite mech and while I play well in it, in recent times I feel it's main advantage which was speed for a heavy mech (some would say light heavy or heavy medium) is no longer the case. How many other mechs can run just as fast but pack more armour and weapons?

While you can be quite successful in a dragon I feel the same pilot in another mech can be even more successful without the short comings like the huge torso.

Davoke, on 16 October 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

I would suggest a super-fast assault support mech, i run mine like so:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c89f6b187c694d6
It's got a good punch up-close, and is very agile.

Don't need case as Gauss ammo is inert.

Also no ammo for AC2s.

[One Medic Army]

PopTootPoopShoot, on 16 October 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

what about this build? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f4fdefb04c233c

Several comments spring to mind:
1. You have 27tons of weaponry on a single (not fully armored, also contains explosives) arm on a 60ton mech.
2. You are severely under-armored
3. You have no AC/2 ammo
4. The CASE serves little purpose, as the Gauss ammo does not explode, and if the Gauss explodes you're both pretty much out of weapons, and likely have little to no side-torso damage from the explosion spilling over
5. The build can be done much much better on a Jagemech while only losing about 5kph in speed.

[Buzzkillin]

I am a long time Dragon Pilot, here is the one I use: DRG-1C

Like the others have said, use the Dragon as a hit and run striker. If you do fight a 1v1, keep moving, use your arms. Make the enemy panic forcing them to waste shots and fire more often, causing them to shutdown and you take your free shots. Don't be afraid to take a few shots, fall back, and flank. Use the speed to your advantage.

Edited by Buzzkillin, 16 October 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Bromineberry]

PopTootPoopShoot, on 16 October 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I went with a Gauss PPC and S-SRM 2. I desperately need to upgrade my engine though, I'm using an STD 265 and I am far from saving enough to get an XL 300-400

Get the 325XL if you're on a tight budget. Why? Because it's the most flexible engine. When I play with smurfys calc, nearly every nice build I can imagine (4xLL, 2xPPC+ML, Gauss+4ML, 3xAC2) works with the 325XL. The problem with buying a bigger engine is, that if your planned loadout doesnt suit you/doesnt work, your'se stuck with a very heavy engine, that really hampers the amount of builds you can do. If you buy the 300XL, you often will have spare tonnage with nothing to use it for. Or you will run out of crit slots before running out of tonnage. Or have the urge to go faster...

I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy a 300XL or 350XL, I'm just saying, that imho the 325XL is the sweetspot when it comes to engines for the Dragon. This is especially true, if you're on a budget and can't afford to buy several XL engines to swap in and out for testing different builds.

Edited by Bromineberry, 16 October 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[DelRico]

I killed 6 ppl yesterday with my Dragon.

Use his speed to get a good sniping position, run away when ppl see you, and come in later to help finish the enemy when everyone is mangled in a large mass of blazing metal.

Speed. Only thing he has, and he's good at it.

[Hans Von Lohman]

The curse of the Dragon Pot-Belly is a more accurate description.

The Bad: The size of the center torso sticks out so far that is what usually gets hit.

The Good: The side torsos never get hit, and that means you can run an XL engine without much worry that you will die because you lost a side torso.

If you want a recommendation, get any of the XL engines in increments of 25 tons. The 250XL, 275XL, 300XL, ect.

Why those sizes? Well, those are the engine ratings that add another internal heat sink slot in your center torso engine. With Double Heat Sinks and Endo steel being the most common upgrades you can find that you will run out of space really quickly. Those internal heat sinks slots become lifesavers when you want to make a build with a lot of gear in it.

Avoid putting tons and tons of weapons in a single arm. If you lose that arm, you lost you punch. Try to put the weapons all around your mech to save the pain of losing your good bit.

And yes, the Flame is the best Dragon, but the flip side to that is the Flame is a Hero Mech and you cannot buy one with C-bills. Given a choice for a C-bill Dragon I would want the 1C, because it has only 1 ballistic slot and I tend to not go for multiple autocannons.

[mekabuser]

I enjoy taking underutilized mechs and finding loadouts that work. I can run dragon , awesome and ORIGINAL spider pilot.
THe dragon was perhaps the toughest nut to crack, but ill pass on a little secret. For pilots who know how to use their arms, the dragon is an accurate weapons platform. I use a lbx... yep. and I love it.
Situational awareness is king with the dragon. that and a few other things ill keep to myself.

[CygnusX7]

I bought a Fang a loooong time ago, yeah I know....

For the reason that a ballistic in the shoulder works well on the Flame I put a PPC there on the Fang.
340XL, 2ERLL, 1 PPC. Hit them with the ERLL's and when the reticule is red spike them with the PPC.

FANG-BOLT