20 replies to this topic

[Jungle Plague]

Alright Gents (and Ladies),

I am VERY new to MWO, been keeping up with it etc. (I have been a huge fan of MW since 2...) but just got a computer that can handle the game. Loving it so far... but this game is a bit... different...

So, I slapped together a quick Hawk build using thinking that made sense (to me) for past games, and I wanted to get the "Professionals" opinion... any suggestions?

"http://mwo.smurfy-ne...928c46cd313cd82"

[Damon Howe]

All in all, not bad.

Only a few things I would change:
-Move 10 points on each Rear Torso to the front; unless you plan on getting shot in the back a lot, you'll need it up front.
-Drop the 2 heatsinks in the engine and add 2 tons of ammo - 1SRM and 1 Gauss each. Plan to survive the battle and have ammo to spare by the end.
-If you need to save armor or move it around, take it off the head first. It's unlikely to be hit.

Other than that, good luck on the field!

Edit:
-One more thing...you have an Anti-Missile System on there but no ammo...if you want it you need to ammo for that too, or drop it and save half a ton. That's it!

Edited by Damon Howe, 17 October 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Jungle Plague]

Damon Howe, on 17 October 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

All in all, not bad.

Only a few things I would change:
-Move 10 points on each Rear Torso to the front; unless you plan on getting shot in the back a lot, you'll need it up front.
-Drop the 2 heatsinks in the engine and add 2 tons of ammo - 1SRM and 1 Gauss each. Plan to survive the battle and have ammo to spare by the end.
-If you need to save armor or move it around, take it off the head first. It's unlikely to be hit.

Other than that, good luck on the field!

Edit:
-One more thing...you have an Anti-Missile System on there but no ammo...if you want it you need to ammo for that too, or drop it and save half a ton. That's it!

Hm... well my noob is definitely showing... totally missed the boat that I needed to load up ammo for my AMS, though it makes good sense that I should.

As for heat sinks - do you guys like to run a little warmer and just manage heat better, or do you prefer to be able to go to town on somebody without overheating?

Again... it has been a while since I have been in MechWarrior... my systems are definitely not nominal...

[Damon Howe]

AMS really can be hit or miss. It could save you in a pinch, but then again that's 1.5 tons that could give you the ammo you need for the kill shot. Give or take.

Personally, I like running hotter. Yes you have to pay more attention to your heat, but that's something you yourself can control. If you run out of ammo however, well that's it then. Your management is done (and so to is likely your mech) unless you plan on conserving your shots throughout the match. I'd rather be able to waste a shot and have more to spare then have to hold back all match long.

But, that's just me.

[Jungle Plague]

Hmmm...

Interesting... once I get off of work I think I will have to see if I can get this guy up and running... and try not to get my face melted...

<a href="http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=110&l=ee41a394a074014e0b9d0a37c38fd125e1ac075e">SHD-2H</a>

Edited by Scotty Sotken, 17 October 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[LauLiao]

I don't know how much you've actually played the game (if at all) but the Gauss isn't terribly "n00b" friendly. Just be warned it's not just point and click like everything else, takes a little bit of skill to use effectively.

[Appogee]

1. Put some AMS ammo in the head.
2. Move the SRM ammo to the leg. That way if it explodes it wont destroy your entire Mech/engine.
3. You need more ammo more than you need those heat sinks. But if you keep them, move them to the side torsos, so they can buffer your crits.
4. I recommend you add at least 2 jump jets to your build.
5. Gauss is trickier to use, weighs more, and has lower damage per second than AC10, a pair of AC2s, or a LBX10. In a Medium Mech, it's probably not the idea way to use your 3 ballistic hardpoints.

You may prefer to consider this build, which I've designed to offer ability to do long range damage, as well as medium and short range punch, and the added maneuerability of JumpJets.

Edited by Appogee, 17 October 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Ruccus]

If you like the new Gauss Rifle you might want to try to get more ammo in there; you're spending 17 tons on 20 shots (maximum 300 damage if all shots land). Your SRM ammo is also in a vulnerable place, though if the Gauss explodes you're done for anyway. Another point is you have a jump-capable mech but don't have any jump jets - easiest change is to drop that ammo-less AMS and pop in a jump jet. Here is your build with a few tweaks (2 more tons of Gauss ammo, one less heatsink, and a jump jet) that should allow you to let the Gauss rounds fly more freely. Note that I put the Gauss ammo in the torso. Because gauss ammo doesn't explode but the SRMs and Gauss Rifle will, the move is to hope that if you do get critted in the torso it will hit the ammo and not the weapons.

As the above posters have mention, the Gauss Rifle currently isn't the weapon it once was (I used to use the Gauss a lot, but I haven't equipped once since a few days after they nerfed it). Here's a build that reduces the engine size a bit (though note that if you want to run the XL engine in other mechs you might opt for an XL275 because some mechs' engine limit is 275) and swaps the Gauss for a pair of AC5s. I found a pair of AC5s work well as a replacement for my 'old Gauss'. I also decided to swap the SRM4s for SSRM2s, so that once you lock on to a light you can get some good damage on them.

[Bhelogan]

I would suggest not using an XL engine with the Gauss rifle in the side torso like that. The main reason is that the Gauss Rifle can explode (very easily), which will take out your engine. Personally, I don't like the Gauss rifle anymore, since the firing mechanic change, but it still can be a viable weapon. You will be slower with a STD engine, but use that and a CASE in the torso with the rifle, it will add a lot of survivability. My personal preference for this mech: SHD-2H. If you like to brawl, give it a try.

[Mercer Skye]

I may not be doing it right, but when I get around to getting my Hawk, I intend to run something like this;

[Jungle Plague]

Well... Discovery... the firing mechanic that was mentioned... it totally sucks. Like... WOW that is bad. WOOOOOWWWWW. After messing around with the Gauss a little big I am 99% sure I am throwing that junk out the window. Maybe I just need more practice, but when I ask my gun to shoot, I want it to shoot as soon as I pull the trigger... not charge up to fire. Wow.

I am not usually one to complain about dev choices... but I am curious as to what Piranha was doing with this one... maybe there is some kill-tastic benefit to a gauss I have not figured out yet... but the "mini-charge" it has is enough of an irritation to ditch it.

[chaas]

Mercer Skye, on 17 October 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I may not be doing it right, but when I get around to getting my Hawk, I intend to run something like this;

My friend I found a couple of optimization issues with your 'Mech. Hope you don't mind. Smurfy seems to be down at the moment, so I'll just describe the changes.

Ammo in the Center Torso has been moved to the Left Arm to improve survive-ability. One ton of AMS ammo has been added there as well. For ... symmetrical reasons, I rearranged the Jump Jets so that one is in each torso: CT, RT and LT. C.A.S.E. has been removed as it is now superfluous. I also removed the pair of DHS from the engine; 57% cooling is plenty adequate! Last, I maxed out your armor except for two points in the legs. The new numbers are as follows:

Head: 18
CTF: 57
CTR: 15
RTF: 42
RTR: 10
LTF: 42
LTR: 10
RA: 36
LA: 36
RL: 51
LL: 51

Remember this is only a suggestion. I wish you luck in your killing!

EDIT: You now have .5 tons to do with what you will.

Edited by chaas, 18 October 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Inflatable Fish]

chaas, on 18 October 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Ammo in the Center Torso has been moved to the Left Arm to improve survive-ability.

well, gauss ammo doesn't explode in the first place...

as for other weapons, keeping ammo in the shield arm when using an XL engine is asking for trouble. losing the arm (which you *should* be, eventually, if you use it for its intended purpose) results then in an ammo explosion that can severely damage, if not outright destroy, your side torso, thus kill you. plus, ammo from the CT is higher on the consumption priority list than that in the arm, so it is used up first, which lowers the risk of AE with every shot, p. much.

by that logic, the best locations for storing ammo are, in fact, the head and the CT, followed by legs (as legs are usually sturdily armoured and targeted less often than the torso.)


as for the gauss rifle, if you decide to drop it, you may replace it with an AC/10 or double AC/2, gaining three tons to cram in more ammo, and maybe some jump jets - there is no sane reason not to use them in a mech that can mount them.

[Hex Pallett]

Forget Shadowhawk now if you're new. For a 55-toner it's way too big in size to be effective.

Get a Hunchback.

EDIT: Oh wait...nvm.

Edited by Helmstif, 18 October 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Jungle Plague]

Hmmm... Diddled around a bit... looking for a more diverse loadout...

<a href="http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=111&l=7802802ee5f82eacdf7c8c802410b9cc8f94c338">SHD-2D2</a>

Thoughts?

[Inflatable Fish]

Scotty Sotken, on 18 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Hmmm... Diddled around a bit... looking for a more diverse loadout...

SHD-2D2

Thoughts?

1. fixed the link for you there;

2. the build seems like you're undecided as to what it's supposed to do. the two lasers are long range direct fire, but with only the engine heat sinks you'll be running real hot real quick. the LRM20 is indirect support fire, but without anything to back it up, be it artemis or tag, it'll be tough to reliably damage targets with it. not to mention one ton of ammo gives you a whole nine volleys per match, which is meager for a fire support role. and then there's an SRM6, a close combat weapon which requires a completely different targeting method than the lasers.

3. skipping a ballistic weapon on the Shadow Hawk is giving up one of its greatest advantages - the ability to deliver direct fire over low cover thanks to the mech's height. again, you need to think of a specific role you want your mech to perform. none can be the best at everything.

4. again no jumpjets, you're making a bad habit out of it.


a modified version of your loadout, more focused toward LRM support fire:

SHD-2H

you retain the laser for direct long range fire and armour stripping, LRM as your main damage dealer (note there's two 10s instead of a 20: the SHD's missile bays have 10 tubes each, so firing one LRM20 takes two salvos while two 10s fire all at once) and machineguns for short range crit seeking and finishing off damaged enemies you happen to run into. important: this is *not* a brawler mech by any means, and you should avoid short range confrontations as much as you can. you also rely on other mechs to spot for you - if you have a friend who can do that for you, you'll be golden.

also remember that AMS is p. much the bane of LRMs that come in volleys of less than 30. as such, avoid shooting into blobs of mechs unless you have another LRM mech firing with you.

the mech may also be challenging to perform well with at first, as using LRM takes a lot of skill, preparation and foresight to make the volleys count.

Edited by Inflatable Fish, 18 October 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[chaas]

Inflatable Fish, on 18 October 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

well, gauss ammo doesn't explode in the first place...

as for other weapons, keeping ammo in the shield arm when using an XL engine is asking for trouble. losing the arm (which you *should* be, eventually, if you use it for its intended purpose) results then in an ammo explosion that can severely damage, if not outright destroy, your side torso, thus kill you. plus, ammo from the CT is higher on the consumption priority list than that in the arm, so it is used up first, which lowers the risk of AE with every shot, p. much.

by that logic, the best locations for storing ammo are, in fact, the head and the CT, followed by legs (as legs are usually sturdily armoured and targeted less often than the torso.)


as for the gauss rifle, if you decide to drop it, you may replace it with an AC/10 or double AC/2, gaining three tons to cram in more ammo, and maybe some jump jets - there is no sane reason not to use them in a mech that can mount them.

My apologies, but it seems I'm still having connection issues with Smurfy and am unable to load the build. Was this the build with machine guns and streaks? Those CT-mounted ammo bins in the original build held MG and SSRM rounds that do indeed explode, and would cause immediate death in that location. I weighed "Might Kill Me" against "Will Kill Me" as far as placement of those bins, and the former made more sense to me. The AMS also needed ammo, thus three tons of ammo in the shield arm. I placed four tons in the leg, but I believe there was a weapon in the head as well.

However you bring up a valid point, Gauss ammo can be stored anywhere and, if fired from range, CT bins go first. Depends on the build and the player I guess.

[Rorvik]

Scotty Sotken, on 18 October 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

Well... Discovery... the firing mechanic that was mentioned... it totally sucks. Like... WOW that is bad. WOOOOOWWWWW. After messing around with the Gauss a little big I am 99% sure I am throwing that junk out the window. Maybe I just need more practice, but when I ask my gun to shoot, I want it to shoot as soon as I pull the trigger... not charge up to fire. Wow.

I am not usually one to complain about dev choices... but I am curious as to what Piranha was doing with this one... maybe there is some kill-tastic benefit to a gauss I have not figured out yet... but the "mini-charge" it has is enough of an irritation to ditch it.

The Gauss Rifle is supposed to be a sniping weapon, not a glorified, all-range AC/15. If you look at the ballistic weapons, the more damage they do, the lower their range...except the GR. Outside of the gun itself blowing up, there really wasn't much of a downside to using the weapon. This is on top of the fact that, unlike other shooters, there's no real aim down sight mechanic in MWO, other than a bit of zooming in, which isn't always required, even for precision shots.

And thus, the wind-up mechanic.

I know some people don't like it, but it's for the best all-round. If you want a positive upside to the wind-up mechanic: GR ammo is very precious, as you get so little per ton. The last thing you want to be doing is wasting it on missed snap shots.

If you ultimately really don't like the way the GR works, don't use it. Feel free to replace it with an AC/10, LB 10-X, or an AC/20. All three have better DPS, anyway.

Edited by Rorvik, 22 October 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[orcrist86]

Bishop Steiner has a fantastic SH build in the mechs and loadout section. That dude is a fantastic player and I find his build to be inspiring for my own designs. Do yourself a favor now and watch his threads.

Here it is:

Quote

[color=#959595]ok, first run, 5 kills, 552 damage, 10 component destruction. Not a bad start. Killed 2 Shads, 2 Centys and a Thunderbolt.[/color]
SHD-5MSuperEnforcer

[Rorvik]

orcrist86, on 22 October 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Bishop Steiner has a fantastic SH build in the mechs and loadout section. That dude is a fantastic player and I find his build to be inspiring for my own designs. Do yourself a favor now and watch his threads.

Here it is:

I run that build on my HBK-4G. It's very solid.