8 replies to this topic

[ASHRID]

Regardless of if you think EMC is in a good place right now it's fair to say that the MWO implementation has a much wider scope than it did on the tabletop.

Quick refresher: On the tabletop ECM has no effect on conventional LRMs or Streak and does not prevent a lock! EMC only jams Artemis, Narc, Beagle and C3

C3 is where the current MWO implementation of ECM will fall down (and is probably why we don't have C3 yet).

Quick refresher: C3 allows all Mechs in the C3 network (typically a lance) to share targeting info.

But in MWO we can already do this without C3!

and that's the problem. Since the devs gave us all C3 by default they are now going to have to increase the scope of C3 just as they had to increase the scope of ECM (jamming all locks).

My (I suspect unpopular) suggestion is to remove the default shared targeting and implement C3 (since the functionality is already in the game). At the same time reduce the effect of ECM to that of only blocking locks from artemis-equipped launchers & Narc, prevent target sharing from C3 units and return Beagle to functioning like it used to (with only Beagle units displaying 'Low Signal' as they know they are being jammed). Also remove the hardpoint requirement of ECM (I'm not automatically suggesting open it up to every Mech, just not dictating where it is fitted)

The net effect of this is that C3 can actually be implemented and ECM, while still useful, stops being overpowered. Massed indirect LRM rain requires a C3 network (possibly resulting in LRM damage being buffed)

[DocBach]

C3 is suppose to do more than just share targeting information, it is suppose to let you use the closest 'Mech's range as a modifier for your own shots. All Battlemechs can share some target data without C3, ie sharing targets for indirect fire in the boardgame, which is possible without C3.

A couple of things for C3 implementation that could happen:

Right now you can only share data on a single target you have locked, C3 could let you target any target a friendly 'mech in the C3 network has on his sensors, rather than just selected himself.

A picture in picture display like the end of match screen that shows you what the other members of your C3 lance network can see

Make readout display like paperdoll instantaneously available when selecting a target that someone in the C3 network already has targeted with the information already retrieved.

[DI3T3R]

MWO-C3 could allow for instantaneous lock-ons for Artemis and streaks, if another member of your network is also targeting that enemy.

[ASHRID]

DocBach, on 18 October 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

C3 is suppose to do more than just share targeting information, it is suppose to let you use the closest 'Mech's range as a modifier for your own shots.

True but doesn't really translate to MWO which is why I didn't mention it.

But I think you've both essentially missed my point that the current shared targeting information is essentially giving everyone C3 functionality for free and the reason why ECM is needlessly powerful.

[General Taskeen]

For balance purposes, C3 Master Computers, NARC, and TAG should be the only piece of equipment that allow indirect fire. C3 Master/Slave can be additional features to share target detail, while everyone else gets a big ol "?" in their target box until they are in LOS (if they are not tied to a master/slave network).

That's how it has worked in previous Mech games and worked perfectly IMO.

Then we can get back to ECM only reducing radar signatures, and the flat buff of a simple longer missile lock on time, countering indirect fire equipment of the Mech using it or shielding a friendly from a NARC beacon.

Then maybe, for once, MWO can get some semblance of sanity.

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 October 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Syrkres]

But the issue is we really don't have shared targeting?

You cannot easily target the same mech as your lancemate (let alone a drop mate).

I posted this thread a short while ago which would allow easier targeting by lance mates, but not many people seem interested in it.

http://mwomercs.com/...-mates-targets/

It would basically give "easy" targeting only if you have a C3 Master/Slave.

The idea is basically put lance mates targets in the Lance Window, but only show them if they have a C3 system.

Question is should it be a C3 in the drop or just in lance.

I think this would make C3 useful to teams because of the easy ability to focus fire.

[DocBach]

ASHRID, on 18 October 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

True but doesn't really translate to MWO which is why I didn't mention it.

But I think you've both essentially missed my point that the current shared targeting information is essentially giving everyone C3 functionality for free and the reason why ECM is needlessly powerful.

ECM was made unbalanced because LRM's at the time were super unbalanced. Sharing target information is a basic function of 'Mech sensors. There are other ways to give C3 functionality, though, without making it overpowered like I described.

[ASHRID]

DocBach, on 18 October 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

There are other ways to give C3 functionality, though, without making it overpowered like I described.

That's the thing though, you shouldn't need to go looking for other ways

[DocBach]

If you want the C3 to have the same effect that it does in Battletech we would need a system where accuracy is dependent on range to the target ie a cone of fire that gets smaller depending on battlefield conditions.

That's not happening in MWO, so an alternative to make C3 useful is required.

The Tech Manual(pg 39) explains that:

"BattleMechs are also not islands unto themselves. They can
share sensor data to some extent, allowing greater sensory
performance than a single ’Mech can achieve. The specialized
equipment of a C3 system takes this to new heights with direct
battlefi eld applications, but all BattleMechs can at least
receive basic sensory data from a unit mate."

We can do what we have now without C3 - C3 would just expand our ability to do so. Right now friendlies can only target whatever a spotter has targeted. A C3 equipped lance should be able to share all sensor data, so friendlies in the network can target anything detected.