1 reply to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Its a difficult topic and I fear I will not capture all points nor will make it with adequate language style that hardly anybody will understand.

But the universe will know - This is only my personal opinion, if you feel insulted by any of those words - I have to apologize, as well as for some biased phrases.

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Foreword

If you ask me what is more important I usally would a mixture of both. The best game without reason - couldn't be the best game. You always know that a enviroment is rich - when there are examples of that. Take for example multiple RPGs - that is rich enviroment - or at least the vanilla RPGs have books or storys, people that tell story and so much more - even when you don't talk or read those books, you know it is there, and you feel that with almost every spend minute in that game.
On the other hand - if the price for immersion is game play - you may have created wonderful rich enviroments - but nobody is playing your game...would be a pitty.

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Principle of BattleTech in short

So what about of MWO: in principle you have a ultra dense rich enviroment. Of elite warriors that are privilleged to fight wars and conquer planets in expensive biped Meks.
Those BattleMechs are rare - you hardly have more as a lance of light BattleMechs for milita units. The major part of the fighting forces of the IS - is the infantry man and tank, vTOL or conventionel fighter crew.

You have some interstellar national states ruled by aristoratical familys.
You have rebells, mercs, pirates and lots of minor players, companys, hundreds of planets (with funny names - was really surprised to see two small town names from where I grew up - you may never have heard of those: "Finsterwalde" and "Senftenberg"). There are also citys that were build to assist BattleMech Movement. But that is limited to fortress planets mostly after the Clan Invasion - for example Pesht.

Technology is a babble of hard sic-fi and space opera - with a post apocalyptic touch (or at least it was this way at the beginning of BattleTech)

So all in all - BattleTech has lot of immersion...but is there only a single part of that where players can feel that. For example you never heard of BattleTech before, all you know after some reading in the forum is that there are some aristoratel die-hards that are not open to any changes - although they could be fun.

Exactly thats the point. Fun, this game should make fun. For the newbie as well as for die hard fans ( and we all know the latter one will pay any prace for any junk as long it is called BattleTech).

First you can mostly catch with good rich gameplay - the second with immersion of things they did know for 20 or more years.

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impact of gameplay

The pitty: MWO is hardly to catch even one of both.Gameplay is hard to learn - multiple weapons, hundreds of thousends Configurations of BattleMechs, TeamBased battles without a adequate option to communicate - some in game equipment make it even impossible to communicate with the chat only (It was possible before ECM - to command a game of PUGs and even win with a good chance)

So the only way the full game play potential of MWO can be catched is to find friends or comrades and drop as a company. But 12 vs 12 is free for all - so that you hardly get any immersion eighter. Powerbuilds only. Some will call it competive - I forget about those in the beginning - like die-hard BT nerds those people are arrogant as well even when they wouldn't
be able to tell you the difference between a Defiance MechKiller and a Defiance MechHunter.

So gameplay is in current state of the gameplay is rundimental at best. I have waited 20 years to drive a Thud i have no problem to understand that it will last some months even years to make things better.

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MAPS and how they destroy immersion - my opinion

I hope i was fair till this moment...the anihilating critism happens now: immersion - the immersion is worser as worst - its nuller as null.

Only that i have a BattleMech - that looks like a Atlas some how and is called in this way - doesn't make it a Atlas. An Atlas have to be 100tons of force and might. And every step you do in this thing should fill you with awe.

But it doesn't feel like that - not to think about its medicore performance on battlefields. Even the red glowing eyes gone. You only sit in something that could have a range of 2 - 5m or 30 to 100m at a world of giants.

The problem is simple: players have to feel mass and size of that thing. That may work on maps like Alpine or Caustic Valley...but on maps like River City or Crimson Strait its a complete loose, not to mention Forest Colony and the Moonbase looks in the same way: TO BIG

Its nice to have cover - or in other words the gameplay is designed around cover. so your machine for battlefields become a machine of trenches and bunkers - that alone is a problem - but i don't want to talk about now.

Each map feels like an arena - some how designed to meat the necessity to give cover and to reduce the avialable routes.
I wan't to talk about Crimson Strait immersion killers

This kind of bridge at the railwail tunnel at the harbor
Why is there a tunnel? Was the company building tunnels was bribing the gouverment? Why not go arround the hill. Why is this tunnel that big?
If you mind please take a look into TRO Annex -
http://rpg.drivethru...nnex&cPath=4541

No civilian vehicle has the height of an Atlas...So it is not necessary to build tunnels - that large Mechs can pass - and if i have seen it right there is still enough room from the Atlas head to the upper side. Same for the bridge - maybe a kind of loading ramp for inland lake ships.
Look at the water dept at the harbor. Shipst that have this loading height - must have a lot bigger draft - not to mention that those blue water giants will hardly be able to manouver good enough to pass that tiny gap between the island.

So ramp and tunnel have to be decreased in high a lot. "that means you scratching the paint form the upper side of you Catapult launchers - and be not able to pass with a JaegerMech.

Same for the buildings I'm not able to see a sane reason behind the placement of those buildings. Why is this rock there in the middle of the city?

But River City is worse.

The Bridges - why shoud anybody build bridges that have such a height?
There is a damm so that there is no reason to have ships that move that far. Why is there a street that move from some appartement blocks below a drop port?
What kind of drop port is this at all? Only VTOLs or egg shaped Dropships can land...but its to small... woulnd't be a kind of airfield be a better fit?

Bridges should be removed entirely - most average bridges can not be crossed by Mechs - and even the hardest bridges can only supply 90ton Mechs without danger to collaps. Instead the damm could be a better choice to cross the river at this position.

choice to cross the river. The hills have to reduced in height strongly. It shouldn't be possible to move big Mechs through the under side of any remaining bridge.
The Island in the middle? Why that high? Should it be a protection against the tide - and this is a kind of deick? But why haven't the appartment blocks near the conquest point beta no deick? Why not the harbor?
is this an inland or blue water harbour?

As you see some of this questions could be answered by describing the history of those citys or why there are sometime illogical building patterns. But some parts have really to be reduced in size (bridges, tunnels - leave Locusts or Cicadas be the only capable of crossing tunnels would be interesting eighter, streets that you hardly can move through with a Commando or Spider - but you can not follow with a Centurion.

It shouldn't feel like a arena that was created to fight in simulated battleMechs - because how many millions of BattleMechs were allready destroyed in Closed Beta (how many thousend kills and deaths have some players allready comitted) BattleTech is much more - please make MWO a worthy part of this big family.

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Quick help

Give us reason to fight, give us the idea how and where to fight - if you can't add the words "There is only war!" Won't help you with the die-hards - we will go on rampage for sure - but maybe you can win some customers.

have i mentioned to flatten the terrain? More than once - sry.

A good start would be to - throw that sometimes silly messages at the loading screen and add history or else of the current maps. If you need some one to try it and write some history - here I volunteer
Or news tickers or small excerpts from Technical Readouts - but make them on your own... don't want to read that the outstanding durability and firepower of the Awesome makes him an feared opponent.

If you think that my critism wasn't adequate delivered I have to apologize. This exerpt should not insult the major part of readers nor developers nor moderators.

[ShadowedR]

Interesting topic you've brought up here.
Apologies accept for the *cough* "language style"

Karl Streiger, on 24 October 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

Only that i have a BattleMech - that looks like a Atlas some how and is called in this way - doesn't make it a Atlas. An Atlas have to be 100tons of force and might. And every step you do in this thing should fill you with awe.

But it doesn't feel like that - not to think about its medicore performance on battlefields. Even the red glowing eyes gone. You only sit in something that could have a range of 2 - 5m or 30 to 100m at a world of giants.

The problem is simple: players have to feel mass and size of that thing. That may work on maps like Alpine or Caustic Valley...but on maps like River City or Crimson Strait its a complete loose, not to mention Forest Colony and the Moonbase looks in the same way: TO BIG

I remember the first time I felt that rush of piloting a metal monster - back in Mechwarrior 2.
I rediscovered the "immersion" factor you are referring to, when our group of friends discovered Mechwarrior Living Legends.
While testing the game in a 1 v 2 match, I was able to buy a Warhammer. Not far from my base, I encountered my two opponents.

In a moment, that familiar feeling of Mechwarrior washed over me as their two light started blasting away at my Warhammer. I roared. How could they think of beating me? I am a god in metal form!

Their initial alpha strikes faded, my vision was clear. One of them was in my sights.
With a broad grin, I screamed at them - Die!
Within seconds, my foe lay barren and defeated on the ground.

There was a stunned silence on Teamspeak.
After an eternity the remaining light said, this game is the ****

That is the last time I truly felt immersed in a Mechwarrior game.
Oh, MWO has had it's moments, but none like MW2 or the encounter described above.

I'm still hoping that MWO will, one day, allow me experience some of the best Mech action ever.