389 replies to this topic

[Latorque]

So far, the Mechdesign by Alex has been one of best assets of MWO; he has done a tremendous job in my opinion, i would love to see his take on the Marauder - and Anthony's illustrations are breathtaking as well. Based on either of those, i'd buy anything MWO throws at me. . Now if only my favourite mech wasn't property of HG...

[Reno Blade]

One thing to notice of the original art and the spreadsheet: The side torsos are pretty small and low armored (compared to the arms).
That's why I would change Shimmis Marauder to have smaller torso and larger arms with shoulder protection that goes up like the BM or Griffin, or the Reseen marauder.
The arm-pods of FD's Reseen (in the Hangar) is probably the best I've seen for the Marauder.
Now I just need to get all these parts done into some kind of picture (yay for drawing skill level "beginner").

[MoonUnitBeta]

IqfishLP, on 31 October 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

Guys, you rock.

Im only abled to paint stuff, as you see here:



To clarify:

THIS MODEL IS NOT DONE BY ME, I ONLY DID THE PAINTJOB/MASKING/EFFECTS!

That's -really- well done. Very impressive!!!!!

[Iqfish]

I do what I can, I wish I could model or draw, I'm really jealous of Bishop and the other guys :/

[LiGhtningFF13]

IqfishLP, on 31 October 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

Guys, you rock.

Im only abled to paint stuff, as you see here:



To clarify:

THIS MODEL IS NOT DONE BY ME, I ONLY DID THE PAINTJOB/MASKING/EFFECTS!

Hey Iq, awesome work as always dude!

[GalaxyBluestar]

Reno Blade, on 31 October 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

One thing to notice of the original art and the spreadsheet: The side torsos are pretty small and low armored (compared to the arms).
That's why I would change Shimmis Marauder to have smaller torso and larger arms with shoulder protection that goes up like the BM or Griffin, or the Reseen marauder.
The arm-pods of FD's Reseen (in the Hangar) is probably the best I've seen for the Marauder.
Now I just need to get all these parts done into some kind of picture (yay for drawing skill level "beginner").

actually the shoulder pads only create a larger profile = bad because it's not covering side torsos, i don't even find it asthetically pleasing because as many have stated with this mech it's too skinny and flimsy, it looks more inline to run alongside a cicada.

DirePhoenix, on 30 October 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

*opinion hat on* FD is a great artist but he can't save the design, the reseen was always a mutant of underwhelming proportions and this shows it can't be saved. the more i look at it the more i see the reseen marauder as being the mr hyde compared to the shadowhawk dr jykel



and look at number 2



see the simillarities? i couldn't have a marauder looking so close to this. it's not right my freebirth bloodpressure can't take it. *opinion hat off*

that's why we need the quirks and essence of the original analysied and have the dna rearranged into a new marauder. can't wait to see others stuff!

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 31 October 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Firenze]

A current WIP. I made it much smaller as to hide a bunch of the details.
I did a side profile, with my redesign, and then the dynamic bit. Still nowhere near done.

[CrashieJ]

GalaxyBluestar, on 31 October 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

stuff that makes sorta-sense

well if you look at all these mechs, you'll see that the artists take pieces and parts from other "older" mechs and plaster them together to make "newer" mechs, and then scale them to make them seem different.

exaggerated with both MWO and the Clans

sidenote: I put this on the site as part of a joke (due to the fact PGI reuses assets like a hippy) and even it if went by the lore material (cataphract being part Marauder and all that fun stuff no-one reads about).

I got so much hate out of it it was ridiculous.




so does the Shadowcat look the Marauder? YES.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE CLANS ******* LOVED THE **** OUT OF IT.

[GalaxyBluestar]

gavilatius, on 31 October 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

so does the Shadowcat look the Marauder? YES.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE CLANS ******* LOVED THE **** OUT OF RESEEN MATERIAL EVEN THOUGH THE LOVE WAS BASED ON THE ORIGINAL WHICH HG WON'T LET US HAVE THUS CREATING A ******* PARADOX CANON WISE AS THE SHADOW cat SHOULD ACTUALY NOT RESEMBLE THE ******* RESEEN BY THIS LOGIC.

fixed up logic between Canon material and legal materal timeline wise. correct me if order is wrong.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 31 October 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

GalaxyBluestar, on 31 October 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

fixed up logic between Canon material and legal materal timeline wise. correct me if order is wrong.

The ShadowHawk actually does NOT resemble the ReSeen CobraCommanderHawk. Are you saying it should?




EDIT: The point is, the canon timelines and legal timelines have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Legally, HG said nobody else can use the art. FASA removed it (and the non-HG licensed art just to be on the safe side, even though nobody else actually cared). It didn't change the way those 'mechs looked. The mechs didn't suddenly turn invisible in Battletech Universe 3050 (which is the last TRO to feature the UnSeen). They just couldn't use that art to represent those 'mechs in any real-world published media. IRL 2003, Fanpro published TRO: Project Phoenix, so those 'mechs could be represented visually again in print media and miniatures. They didn't suddenly change form in 3067 (when the forward is written in-universe) Those designs were how they were supposed to have always looked like in the new, non-FASA interpretation of the game. But again, these are artist interpretations, and we see how much they vary even when two different artists take on the same designs. Sure, in 1986's Battletech, the Marauder in 3025 looked like a Glaug Officer's Battlepod; but in 2003's Battletech, the Marauder in 3025 (actually even earlier) looked like the ReSeen.

The only point of contention now is that it can't look like Macross art. Fine. Accept that it can't look like Macross art and take something else instead. Stone Rhino, Shadowcat, whatever. As long as it's not Macross art we can use it. The Cataphract is an outstanding example because in-lore it's actually made out of Marauder parts, and nobody seems to have an issue with MWO's Cataphract. You can reverse-engineer the remaining Marauder parts from the Cataphract then, and it makes sense and nobody can take issue with it unless they took issue with the Cataphract, which they didn't. (although gavilatius, I think what most people took issue with your model was the torso, which is one of the main parts of the Cataphract that isn't from a Marauder)

EDIT2:



See that round thing with the snaky tentacle things on it? In 1974, that was a Beholder in D&D. Below is a Beholder in D&D 4th edition (monster Manual 2, circa 2009):



What the... Where did all those horns, scales and spikes come from?!? The Beholder has teeth now?!? And this one has a stronger jaw, and not entirely spherical like the original! This can't be the same monster!

...But it is. Artistic interpretations.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 31 October 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[MadFJohn]

@ Firenze
i like where you are going just a slight suggestion on two parts one is the cockpit slide it back more for the canopy. If you read the Gray Death novels you will get a description of the Mads cockpit and with this design it dose not give the feel of what the book describes . i would go with something like a jets cockpit idea wheres it pushed further up the hull and not right in front this will also give cockpit to have a back hatch to get out like the book had . also it was a more armored canopy than a class canopy.

as i said i would just read the description from the books and try to match to it .

the arms looking good but from the descriptions it had a more forward thrust to the design

Edited by MadFJohn, 31 October 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

Wootin87, on 30 October 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

I like this cockpit window because of/despite that it looks like MasterChief's helmet visor, but more cyclopic in nature.

[GalaxyBluestar]

DirePhoenix, on 31 October 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

corection

i meant SHADOW CAT edited previous post

minus 10 superstar points for me. i'm always getting those two names wrong! ARGH!


the discussion on artistic interpretation. this is fine but it's deosn't work if it starts resembling something else within the franchise. although the maddog/avatar t-bolt/summoner are fine examples the inetersting thing is the shadowcat couldn't have taken after the marauder originally otherwise why does the shadowcat resemble the reseen which was decided upon later. if the shadowcat artwork came out after the reseen artwork i'd understand. at the moment i'm unsure.

willing to see more corrections, education is good for me if it doesn't kill me.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 31 October 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

The Stone Rhino was built by the Clans from the plans of Amaris' 'mech the Matar (in Catalan, Matar means "to kill"). The Matar was built in 2775.



The Marauder was built in 2612. Who's to say the Matar wasn't influenced by the Marauder?

[Caleb Lee]

I believe these are some of the reseen, but I have to love the artwork. Anything along these lines has my full support.

[Caleb Lee]

DirePhoenix, on 30 October 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

This is Shimmering Sword's (Anthony Scroggins) Marauder design:



His design was also adapted for the experimental MAD-4X Marauder seen on the cover of XTRO: Succession Wars Vol I (published November 2012), so it kind of makes it a little more official:



EDIT: Also as I've said before, Topps, Inc. owns all the Battletech art that goes into sourcebooks and print media. Catalyst Games licenses the art from Topps. FD (Alex Iglesias) is MWO's artist, and while MWO can't use actual Topps-owned art, PGI (Alex) can create new art based on sourcebook material... just like every mech already in the game.

TLDR; So, I don't see why we can't get a Marauder that is FD's take on Shimmering Sword's take of the Marauder. My brain is sort of exploding with the possibilities of awesome right now. (although please armor up that cockpit, and no ReSeen stilt-legs please)

Err... didn't see this before posting but +1

[GalaxyBluestar]

DirePhoenix, on 31 October 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

The Stone Rhino was built by the Clans from the plans of Amaris' 'mech the Matar (in Catalan, Matar means "to kill"). The Matar was built in 2775.



The Marauder was built in 2612. Who's to say the Matar wasn't influenced by the Marauder?

edit reading DP's account of legalities and the canon material:

man so the reseen stands for all the design's timeline that's incredibly depressing following MW2's marauder all this time is like...

the maurder... was a lie.

still i'm redesigning based on the macross stuff, it needs to evolve, enough so that it's new work from what HG has. because that spindly little shadowcat wannabe doesn't work... for me anyways.

true there's possibilities. i just prefer the marauder being apart of that family rather than the reseen shadowcat family. the more you look the more you see simillarities.


this artwork for the supernova can look simillar in ways to behemoths and experimental MADs. depends on the artists involved.

art is subjective i suppose... why couldn't HG lose on that premise

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 31 October 2013 - 11:32 PM.

[CrashieJ]

GalaxyBluestar, on 31 October 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

art is subjective i suppose... why couldn't HG lose on that premise

one simple reason: Laws are subjective.

[GalaxyBluestar]

gavilatius, on 31 October 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

one simple reason: Laws are subjective.

DirePhoenix, on 31 October 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

The ShadowHawk actually does NOT resemble the ReSeen CobraCommanderHawk. Are you saying it should?

i'll try and answer this but i reckon i'm digging a hole here due to little quirk-details of history i'm ignorant of but here goes...

there is few reseen material that looks good, i don't want it, FD's reinterpretations are very good some desings are saved and just look good again. the Tbolt and SH are great, i'm only dissapointed the locust hasn't a lance of a head weapon but i guess there must be compromises.

however when dealing with iconic material ie; warhammer, rifleman and marauders how far should a compromise go? back to awful reseens or will redesigns do? that's what we're here to find out...

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 01 November 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Firenze, on 31 October 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

A current WIP. I made it much smaller as to hide a bunch of the details.
I did a side profile, with my redesign, and then the dynamic bit. Still nowhere near done.

Very nice and very close, to what I imagined.
Shoulders that cover the side torsos and smaller torso sections to not get cored instantly.