251 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Vodrin Thales, on 24 October 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Well, no. But the team he was facing might be accused of incompetence. Jaegers are insanely fragile, and are only effective if not a priority target.

Or sneaky. weaving in and out of cover taking shots an fading back into cover.

[Sephlock]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 October 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

So I have to fire twice as much to do the same amount of damage with twice as many weapons! Is that what you are saying? Even if I am firing faster, I am firing twice as much to do the same level of damage as I can do with a single AC20 on TT. Remember 10 seconds is both your and my fire. That is 5 seconds per player per turn. Whats going to happen when there are Ultra 20s on the field? If we cannot even handle a 40 point Alpha, how much meltdown will there be when I can bring two Ultra20s on a Mech (a Medium ta boot)! You will see armor fly off at TT speeds! 80 point Alphas!!!

What will happen is there will be an epic outcry followed by multiple PGI overreactions. First they'll nerf Ultras way too hard, then they'll triple armor, then they'll nerf Ultras some more. Then all the whiners will declare them "fine".

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 24 October 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

What will happen is there will be an epic outcry followed by multiple PGI overreactions. First they'll nerf Ultras way too hard, then they'll triple armor, then they'll nerf Ultras some more. Then all the whiners will declare them "fine".

Sooo all weapons will have a combined Alpha of 5! Got it!

[Sephlock]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 October 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Sooo all weapons will have a combined Alpha of 5! Got it!

And Locusts will have a combined total armor of 90000.

[Elwood Blues]

Sephlock, on 24 October 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

And Locusts will have a combined total armor of 90000.

Are we going to convert MW to Synnibarr now?

[Armored Yokai]

the mech is not OP it justs likes to hide and flank and its hard to get away from them when its a city
if only their arms were bigger it would be alot easier to hit them
and leave them useless
those x2 ac20s always tick me off due to the instant headshot advantage

Edited by Cementblade, 24 October 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Chavette]

Its been decided. He was shot by the ac40 using stock armor values, therefore it shall be nerfed.

[Khobai]

ac/40 is quite frankly worse than dual ppc + ac/20

ac/40 generates 24 heat due to idiotic ghost heat

while dual ppc + ac/20 only generates 26 heat, weighs less, isnt as dependent on ammo, has much better ranged capability, and the only downside is the ppcs dont work under 90m (but the one AC/20 still does).

dual ac/20s are really only worth using if you chain-fire them, because then its 12 heat for the both of them, which is half the heat of dual ppc + ac/20.

Edited by Khobai, 24 October 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[kf envy]

NamesAreStupid, on 23 October 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

go pilot a medium then. Not fast enough to run away not armored enough to kill.

NamesAreStupid, on 24 October 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Well I have mastered Blackjacks, Hunchbacks, Centurions, Trebuchets and have few chassis of Cicadas and Kintaros and play almost exclusively mediums.

Your point is what exactly?

then as somone that almost exclusively plays mediums and has mastered them you should know how correct way to use them. an to an good medium pilot 2 AC20 is no big deal. just means there going to be an lot faster to take down that mech boating them

i sure dont have problems dealing with ac40s at all.

Edited by kf envy, 24 October 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[Kattspya]

Vodrin Thales, on 24 October 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Or just shoot out a side torso and he will be dead and unable to cry.



If you cannot identify which enemy mechs are a threat, see what range you should engage at, and more smartly relative to your team, and do that without voice comms, then you will have a rough time in pugs. It can be done though.

That is true enough but it is not teamplay, What you are talking about falls under individual skill. I am not asking how to play the game but how that teamplay is supposed to work.

I've been playing longer than you so I am not sure why you thought I needed a condescending answer to a question I didn't ask.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 24 October 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

And Locusts Mechs will have a combined total armor of 90000.

Can't have one chassis be OP now Sephlock.

[OneEyed Jack]

While I have no problem with AC40, per se, I did encounter an issue with one recently.

I pulled my Heavy Metal out of mothballs to play around with possible builds for it. It has FULL ARMOR, 100% maxed, including 60pts on each side torso, front. I was in a position in River City where only 2 enemy mechs could possibly have had a direct line of fire on me, and one was trying to get away (back turned). The other was a K2 that I had seen peeking, and shifted my aim to engage when he popped out. When he did, he took one shot and removed all of the armor from my RT (at least 50 points at the time) AND sent the IS to deep orange.

I know for a fact there were no other shooters, my paint had barely been scratched, and he didn't have the firepower to hit me that hard. It's possible there is an issue. I couldn't say if it's an AC20 issue, limited to AC40, a broader AC issue or possibly an issue with multiple ballistics. I can only attest to what I saw, and the numbers don't add up.

It's also possible it was just a freak glitch, but figured I'd throw it out there.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 25 October 2013 - 02:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sounds more like a coding issue or Hack.

[Sean Crees]

There are so many downsides to the AC40 Jager build.

1. Jager torso's are HUGE! And you pretty much HAVE to use an XL engine with this build or your WAY too slow.... So yea, you die really easy.

2. The MOST ammo I've been able to get into a successful build is 49 shots, so 24 alpha's and i'm a walking stick.

3. Speaking of Alpha's. I alpha 3 times and i overheat, even on cold maps. Sure i can stagger fire and get a few more shots in, but then i don't get that huge alpha which is the whole problem people seem to have with it. And while my alpha may be high, my DPS during brawls is only average.

4. My range is incredibly low, 270m optimal, i have to basically be right in front of people to apply all that damage. Falloff at ranged much beyond that is fairly significant. I have to aim way above people to hit them at around 500m, which takes a lot of skill to pull off, and because of my limited ammo is usually not worth it to even try.

In Summery:

The AC40 Jager is a 1 trick pony. It does it's one trick well, but you get it all alone, or in any other hundreds of situations that arise every map, and its dead. You actually have to be pretty smart about how you drive one to not get yourself blown up the first ridge you cross with enemies on the other side.

[Joseph Mallan]

Holy Necro Batman!

[Sean Crees]

OneEyed Jack, on 25 October 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

While I have no problem with AC40, per se, I did encounter an issue with one recently.

I pulled my Heavy Metal out of mothballs to play around with possible builds for it. It has FULL ARMOR, 100% maxed, including 60pts on each side torso, front. I was in a position in River City where only 2 enemy mechs could possibly have had a direct line of fire on me, and one was trying to get away (back turned). The other was a K2 that I had seen peeking, and shifted my aim to engage when he popped out. When he did, he took one shot and removed all of the armor from my RT (at least 50 points at the time) AND sent the IS to deep orange.

I know for a fact there were no other shooters, my paint had barely been scratched, and he didn't have the firepower to hit me that hard. It's possible there is an issue. I couldn't say if it's an AC20 issue, limited to AC40, a broader AC issue or possibly an issue with multiple ballistics. I can only attest to what I saw, and the numbers don't add up.

It's also possible it was just a freak glitch, but figured I'd throw it out there.

I think what you are see'ing is the bug where people hit your front armor, and for some reason the game applies said damage to your rear armor of the same location.

I have seen this before where i'll get shot in the front and it'll apply the damage to the rear where i either have very little, or depending on the game, no armor left on the back and it goes straight to structure.

Also some of the hit boxes for rear locations are able to be hit from the front of the mech.

So its really a combination problem of rear hitboxes being able to be hit from the front, and a bug that sometimes applies front damage to the rear.

[Serpieri]

Lubalin, on 20 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

2 shots from an AC40 Jagermech at like 500m and my atlas has lost 2/3 of its weapons.

This is way imbalanced.

When I bring 1 ac20 on a mech, getting kills is insanely easy due to such accurate damage. Anything comparable has serious downsides. 2 ppcs generate a ton of heat. 2 LL are tough to get pinpoint accuracy. And that's just comparable to a single ac20.

2x ac20 is out of control. 40 damage, pinpoint accuracy, that works at such a long range is way too much. A mech shouldn't be able to fire 2 at once so often without overheating.

Ac20 needs a more drastic range limitation and a huge heat penalty when firing more than 1.

Oh, and L2P, kill at range, don't get close, etc. is true, but tactics don't fix poor balance. Cheers.

AC40's aren't to blame - weapon convergence is.

[KharnZor]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 February 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Holy Necro Batman!

Better to necro than make another thread

[Nick Makiaveli]

Lubalin, on 20 October 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's a new RS, haven't mover armor yet. See above post. 64 pts armor on RT, 450m range.

So you are running with less than max armor, and it's the weapons fault???

Lubalin, on 20 October 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

-1 points, not helpful.

Umm, and that differs from your opinion that 2xAC/20 needs to be nerfed?


-1 points, not logical.

[Noesis]

KharnZor, on 11 February 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Better to necro than make another thread

Depends on the relevancy, especially if the goal posts have moved since then with the subject material of that thread.

Edited by Noesis, 11 February 2014 - 05:00 PM.