41 replies to this topic

[verybad]

I think if Ferro Fibrous reduced the amount of damage you took per hit, but DIDN'T have more points per tonnage, it might sometimes be useful compared to Endo.

As is, it's only used on small mechs that may as well because there's nothing else they can do with their space.

This would in effect incrase the max amount of damage you can take, allowing for more tankable design choices. The amount of space it takes up would still mean that on larger mechs, it would be very difficult to fit both ferro and endo however, so it wouldn't be OP.

Please don't tell me that's not the way it works in TT, I know that. I feel it should be changed in order to provide for a viable choice in Mechwarrior.

[Rhent]

verybad, on 20 October 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I think if Ferro Fibrous reduced the amount of damage you took per hit, but DIDN'T have more points per tonnage, it might sometimes be useful compared to Endo.

As is, it's only used on small mechs that may as well because there's nothing else they can do with their space.

This would in effect incrase the max amount of damage you can take, allowing for more tankable design choices. The amount of space it takes up would still mean that on larger mechs, it would be very difficult to fit both ferro and endo however, so it wouldn't be OP.

Please don't tell me that's not the way it works in TT, I know that. I feel it should be changed in order to provide for a viable choice in Mechwarrior.

You play a Light or Medium mech and Ferro Fibrous is very usefull.

[verybad]

It's not even terribly useful on a light mech, Endo is always the first choice. You use it on a light mech not because it's useful, but because you may as well. On a 35 ton mech, the most it saves is about 0,5 tons.

It's essentially useless, and isn't even a serious consideration on larger mechs.

Making it take reduced energy would make it far more interesting.

[Vassago Rain]

20% damage reduction. There, I've fixed it.

[verybad]

Yep, that's about what I think would work. The current version is {Scrap}.

[MustrumRidcully]

Vassago Rain, on 20 October 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

20% damage reduction. There, I've fixed it.

That's too simple. Can't you come up with something more complex. Say, ghost armour? If you equip only 75 % of the possible armor points, you get 20 %, but if you equip 100 %, it's only 2.5 %?

[Vassago Rain]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 October 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

That's too simple. Can't you come up with something more complex. Say, ghost armour? If you equip only 75 % of the possible armor points, you get 20 %, but if you equip 100 %, it's only 2.5 %?

20% protection + 20% from atlas master tier end-game avatar skill = 21.1337% protection.

[ICEFANG13]

Allow the mech to actually add 12% more armor? Increase caps?

[Monky]

Make it so ferro fibrous reduces damage transfer by an additional 50%. Great for mechs who can actually fit it, ones with standard engines.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

It will introduce Ghost Armour which will counteract Ghost Heat and Ghost Damage.

[UBERSHOOTZ]

it should use 7 critical space instead of 14. Seems fair considering it saves only about half the tonnage of the endo upgrade ?

[ICEFANG13]

UBERSHOOTZ, on 21 October 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

it should use 7 critical space instead of 14. Seems fair considering it saves only about half the tonnage of the endo upgrade ?

It would be still pretty useless like that, although all mechs would probably use if if they couldn't fit Endo and needed a little weight, the mech with the highest armor to mechton ratio (as of last time I checked) the Commando, has a 7.12 armor to mechton ratio and still only saves .59 tons for Ferro, although with some armor shaving, you may get that down to 1 ok, which is equal to Endo. In this case, in a pure effectiveness to slot requirement, the FF would actually be better, but not by enough to make it first pick-able.

[Roughneck45]

But it is useful, just not on everything.

[SweetJackal]

Actually, it's rather simple. Move away from assigning armor points to location and instead assign tons to location.

This change would still have all stock mechs valid in the design system as the TROs assign armor by tonnage. The armor points on stock mechs with FF wouldn't change.

You still display the armor points to the side but armor points becomes the effective stopping power instead of the assigning mechanic. What this means is that FF wouldn't give tonnage back but rather give more armor points per ton and raise the armor point cap for a mech accordingly.

This means that FF could give you the same protection at less tonnage or more protection at the same tonnage depending on how you built around it. It would mean that many mechs that have to choose between FF and Endo don't instantly just pick up Endo.

Currently Endo is flat out better than FF, both are designed purely to exchange Crit Slots for Tonnage, both take the same number of Crit Slots but Endo gives a much better return on tonnage than FF. Giving FF a different design function that fits the lore (FF gave more protection per ton, just BT didn't change Armor Caps) makes FF a competitive choice.

[Zyllos]

I still think allowing 12.5% additional points to be added to each section is a good addition to add, on top of the 12.5% weight reduction.

The way I see it, if you have a Standard Armor mech and you equip FF, for the same weight of Standard armor and 14 critical slots, you get 12.5% additional armor on each section.

That is a competitive choice between 50% internal structure weight (5% weight of the mech) or 12.5% additional armor, from a stock loadout.

The waters get a little muddy when you get into mechs that can equip both FF and ES. If you can equip both, you basically gain 5% weight of your mech and 12.5% bonus to armor points for 28 critical slots.

If Standard armor, maximum allotment, weights 5.0t, then FF makes it weigh 4.375t. Adding the extra 12.5% armor points back will make it weigh 5.0t again and have 12.5% more armor points but at the cost of 14 critical slots.

So, overall, having FF weigh 12.5% less and allow 12.5% more armor will give a competitive reason to equip it over ES if you can only equip either one. But if you equip both, then FF will allow a player to continue using it as a weight savings bonus on top of ES, or lose the weight savings bonus and turn it into 12.5% armor.

Also, in doing this, it doesn't break ANY stock builds because it only adds additional functionality instead of changing functionality.

Edited by Zyllos, 21 October 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[focuspark]

If ferro upped the max armor carried then I'd think it was useful. It wouldn't even have to be lighter to be advantagous.

Just assume having FF allowed 12.5% more armor to be carried. Same points per ton. Wouldn't most Atlas pilots equip it?

[Zyllos]

focuspark, on 21 October 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

If ferro upped the max armor carried then I'd think it was useful. It wouldn't even have to be lighter to be advantagous.

Just assume having FF allowed 12.5% more armor to be carried. Same points per ton. Wouldn't most Atlas pilots equip it?

No, because then it's an increase in 12.5% tonnage and 14 critical slots to gain 12.5% armor points, which is pretty bad. It would also break stock loadouts.

[focuspark]

Zyllos, on 21 October 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

No, because then it's an increase in 12.5% tonnage and 14 critical slots to gain 12.5% armor points, which is pretty bad. It would also break stock loadouts.

TT bonus is 12% this is a modest 0.5% extra. It would not break any stock builds at all.

The boosted max armor is really what people are after.

[Taemien]

Zyllos, on 21 October 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

No, because then it's an increase in 12.5% tonnage and 14 critical slots to gain 12.5% armor points, which is pretty bad. It would also break stock loadouts.

How would it break stock loadouts? From my understanding, the points per ton wouldn't change. So if you change your armor to increase past the max capacity, you're not stock anymore anyway. And no stock mech is going to come in overweight. 16.5 tons of FF is still 16.5 tons of FF.

The point I think most of you are trying to achieve is for FF to be worth 14 criticals in MechWarrior.

I like the idea of going over the cap. That helps heavier mechs, which have no use for FF right now. And I like the idea of reduced damage transferring. That helps all mechs. But personally I think it needs more to be worth 14 criticals. I just can't think of anything else that doesn't get fantastical.

[Almond Brown]

Vassago Rain, on 20 October 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

20% damage reduction. There, I've fixed it.

One would suspect that the Spider Pilots would welcome such a change, not sure about anyone else.