54 replies to this topic

[Benjamin Davion]

So as my first ever ballistic mech, I bought an Ilya Muromets the other day. Genuinely great mech. I experimented a bit, including my first ever attempt at a Gauss rifle that I ultimately abandoned for the time being in favor of the ubiquitous Triple Ultra A/C5 Muromets. (Anyone come up with a zingy name for this thing yet? Like the SplatCat and AC40Jag?) Anyway, I loved the mech, but given my tendency to overuse double-shoot, I started using them on chainfire. What wasn't there to love? A continous, LITERALLY NEVER-ENDING rain of AC5 shells, heat not a concern, damage great, range great... until I started running out of ammo. I had it happen three times, which, frankly, sucked. The last time my whole team was wiped out by a base rush, I decided to get snarky and marched to the enemy base and MADE IT THERE without a round of ammunition in my mech. I stripped the mech down of every heatsink and unnecessary component, slammed all the ammo it could possibly fit. A little more improved, but I still found myself desperately short at the end of some matches.

Finally, after my Muromets went down duelling an AC40 Jag and his Cicada friend on Canyon Network, I spectated onboard a Hunhback packing Triple AC5s. He fought a desperate rear-guard action that enabled our other three surviving mechs to make it to the enemy base, where only a last minute rush from their team prevented a cap-win. Watching that Hunchie, his firing pattern... looked awfully familiar.

On a hunch (no pun intended), I started crunching some numbers. After cussing a blue streak at the waste of money, I stripped my Muromets down yet again, down to the frame, armor, and engine, and dumped most of my available C-Bills into another rebuild: three STANDARD A/C5s. With all that weight removed, I was able to fit far more ammunition, and even an ERLL, along with some height sinks to negate the extra heat. Intrigued by this point, I took the mech into the testing grounds. It became obvious that simply holding the trigger and 'machine-gunning' my chainfired A/C5s was impossible... but only just. Experimenting around with my fire rate, I found that I could crank out a continous stream of A/C5 fire by firing a round perhaps .5 seconds slower than I would have with my Ultras. Still no jams to worry about, still a ton of firepower, and FAR more ammunition to burn through. Further, the ERLL made for a nice boost in my damage output.

I took the mech onto the field several times after that, and my damage profile was just as good as before. In most cases, better. 250-450 damage was absolutely the norm. As before, the mech is less of a 'killer' than an 'assistant', though I've still gotten several kills. The range is just as good (In fact, technically slighter better), the damage is BETTER, and the durability is LONGER.

Now, from what I've seen, most warriors using the triple Ultra A/C5 build chainfire to avoid jamming up. IF YOU ARE NOT CHAINFIRING THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. You can use doublefire, etc, however you want. But if you ARE chainfiring, I do NOT see benefit in using Ultra A/C5s over regular A/C5s. Has anyone broken this down in a detailed way? Done more scientific case studies?

PS. My new build has NEVER run out of ammo. Ever.

[Ewigan]

Well, i chainfire.
BUT, and here is the big but, whenever i NEED i crank out the double shots.
One weapon group is all my UACs in chainfire, while the other has all UACs in "normal" fire.
So, if the situation needs it, i just push a second button to my continuus chainfire and BAM - Doubleshot! With a chance to jam of course.

The thing is though: with an XL you can fit tons of ammo and some lazors on your Ilya.
It depends if you can/want to take the risk though.

Edit: Disclaimer: I run my Ilya with dual gauss these days, i ran it through basic with the triple UAC. And i finished basic just two days ago ^^

Edited by Ewigan, 04 July 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[Kanajashi]

Triple AC/5s is my preferred Ilya Muromets build. I have tried the UAC/5s but jamming and ammo restrictions suck . Changing things to the AC/5 allowed for a larger engine for higher mobility, higher ammo counts and no fear of loosing my DPS from jamming in a critical situation.

My Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...50c5fc710b39898
Designed by TruePoindexter:

In Action:

Edited by Kanajashi, 04 July 2013 - 11:05 PM.

[NRP]

Meh, I tried 3 AC/5s but was unimpressed so I went back to 3 UAC/5s. With an XL engine and 2 MLs, I think I got 7 or 8 tons of ammo in there. If you run out of that much, you've have a hell of a round!

[NightFallsOnU]

i have been running my Illya with trip LBX-10s and a Med Pulse laser and its tons of fun

[Archon Adam Steiner]

I've got a triple AC/5 (regulars) with a PPC and 2MLas (smaller XL engine - 255). I find it's simply more reliable than the ultra-based buid. Bottom line, in a match against good players, you can't afford to have 90% of your fire power spontaneously lock up.

[Pastor Priest]

I was kinda asking the same thing the other night, after getting beat in a one on one against a quad AC5 Jager. I lost my cool and was using the double-tap too much, and was jammed more than I was actually firing. So, I went all ultra nerd (pun intended) to see how much more benefit the UAC5 offers versus the regular AC5.

If you have the tonnage and the slots, the UAC5 looks like a better deal than the AC5 because of the faster reload time or 1.1 seconds versus 1.5. Of course, there's the double-tap, but I won't look at that right now.

Let's assume two Ilyas: One with 3x AC5, one with 3x UAC5. They stand still and square off with one another. The UAC5 Ilya is scared to death of jamming, so he doesn't double-tap. For the sake of reality and being, he has the average reaction time of 0.20 seconds, but the anticipation of the reload cuts it down to 0.10 seconds (the improvement from anticipation is purely speculation), so he's actually firing every 1.20 secons. Let's also assume they have front CT armor 70. With perfect CT shots, the UAC5 will win, but by how much? He needs 8 perfect shots to hit the magical 115 points of damage to core the other from the front. Atone shot every 1.20 seconds, that's 8.4 seconds (the first shot comes at second 0). The regular AC5 will need 10.5 seconds even. About a two second difference. Not a game changer, but in this game, two seconds quicker will save your butt. And, say the UAC Ilya gets the regular AC5 Ilya to bad core damage first, he can use the double-tap burst to deliver a quick killing blow, making a bigger difference in time.

So to answer this question, it depends. The AC5s allow you to free up more tons for a bigger engine. You can use it for better maneuverability, and treat it a bit like a larger Hunchback. Weave in, hit, fade, and protect your sides. Also, this is a good choice if you struggle with controlling your double-tap on the UAC5.
The UAC5 is more about being a mobile gun turret. You aren't quick on your feet, but you deliver damage very quickly. If you're facing down someone, forgo the double-tap and just use your rapid DPS to chew them up. If you open up a side torso, you can go for the double-tap to finish them off. If you are briefly popping out of cover, if the enemy is only giving you a couple seconds to shoot, or if you aren't taking much fire, make use of the double-tap to do some quick shredding.

And BTW, according to the math, the trip UAC5s just can't beat the quad AC5. That's where pilot skill comes into play.

[NRP]

I think of a triple UAC/5 mech like a round of golf. It can be frustrating as hell, but then you hit that one perfect shot and it makes you fall in love all over again. Likewise, UAC/5 jamming sucks, but every once it a while they don't jam and holy hell at the amount of destruction you can wreak! Not even an Atlas can survive.

[CaptOven]

The 3 ML 3 UAC/5 has been known by The Garth as the "Ziggy Piggy" Mech. If you're baffled watch Bill and Ted Excellent Adventures again

It's reliable enough with 3 to put out a LOT of shots over the average match and even with them jamming most of the match I can still rack up 200 to 300 damage fairly regularly.

Definitely one of my favourite builds and has my record for second longest kill without LRMs at 600m

[Autobot9000]

Absolutely go for an XL engine. The triple UAC variant is the best of the best. No other gun has this potential in the current inner sphere arsenal. Just make sure you equip enough ammo, triple UACs run out very very fast. I would aim at 175 or even 200.

The only reason I can see not going triple UAC5 is the "pay-to-win" factor. Clearly this little tweak is a chunk of pay-to-win, but hey you paid, right? Misery pilots enjoy the same absurd advantage.

Here you go, at this speed you can kill a D-DC and not take more than a scratch in return. I am running a similar build with my CTF-3D, just that I don't have the advantage of a third U/AC5. With skill and practice you can bring down the 1k dmg bar.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...750260fdd2013ff

Edited by Autobot9000, 09 July 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Pastor Priest]

CaptOven, on 09 July 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

The 3 ML 3 UAC/5 has been known by The Garth as the "Ziggy Piggy" Mech. If you're baffled watch Bill and Ted Excellent Adventures again

It's reliable enough with 3 to put out a LOT of shots over the average match and even with them jamming most of the match I can still rack up 200 to 300 damage fairly regularly.

Definitely one of my favourite builds and has my record for second longest kill without LRMs at 600m

Agreed, it's a lot of fun. Just had one of my highest damage matches ever in it, that ended with an epic 3v1 duel against a dual UAC5 Jager and two 3Ls. Guess who won...

Just keep in mind you some trigger control can be a good thing.

[MWNoob]

I run my Ilya as a sniper with 2ERPPC and Gauss, 3 or 4 tonnes ammo, xl300 at around 1.57 heat efficiency.. max armor everywhere except the left arm (26). I regularly get around the 600-800 damage mark. The speed allows you to quickly reposition if you get charged by brawlers.

[Flak Kannon]

I firmly support the Ilya and triple Uac/5's.

I run mine with 3uac5's, and either 2 ml and one flamer, or 3 ml.

I carry 225 round of ammo.

I do not chain fire.

I do not run out of ammo. (This will change with 12v12)

I rarely jamm.

I average 700 damage. I often exceed 800, and have topped 1000 many times.

There is nothing in MWO that is more devastating these three builds. Triple Uac5s, quad ppcs , and dual ac20's...that's just the facts as the meta stands.

I love my Ilya triple uac5.

[WarGruf]

Urm the AC5 / UAC5 builds are good but an Muromet without Double Guass, 3 Mediums, rocking a 300XL is otherwise a waste to be fair...

The Dakka is Great dont get me wrong... But for pure Battlefield Power and the ability to kill Everything. Its got to be Dual Guass 5 ton of ammo.

Have fun.

[Benjamin Davion]

Flak Kannon, on 10 July 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

I firmly support the Ilya and triple Uac/5's.

I run mine with 3uac5's, and either 2 ml and one flamer, or 3 ml.

I carry 225 round of ammo.

I do not chain fire.

I do not run out of ammo. (This will change with 12v12)

I rarely jamm.

I average 700 damage. I often exceed 800, and have topped 1000 many times.

There is nothing in MWO that is more devastating these three builds. Triple Uac5s, quad ppcs , and dual ac20's...that's just the facts as the meta stands.

I love my Ilya triple uac5.

I've been playing around with this mech so much it's ridiculous. My latest build includes a Gauss rifle, AC2, and an ERLL. Great damage output, and the AC2 makes a really nice aiming device for the Gauss, BUT, I probably won't keep this build any longer than the three that went before it.

So I'm curious. What precisely are you running? Engine, ammo? Weapons other than UAC5s? What kind of trigger groups do you use?

[Flak Kannon]

Benjamin Davion, on 10 July 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

I've been playing around with this mech so much it's ridiculous. My latest build includes a Gauss rifle, AC2, and an ERLL. Great damage output, and the AC2 makes a really nice aiming device for the Gauss, BUT, I probably won't keep this build any longer than the three that went before it.

So I'm curious. What precisely are you running? Engine, ammo? Weapons other than UAC5s? What kind of trigger groups do you use?

I have only two groups. I fire all three ML's at once and all three UAC5's at once....but, big but.. I almost never double tap.

Every 1.1 - 1.5 seconds I send down range an accurate 15 points damage. I have shot this kannon so much, it's a part of me. I rarely jam. That's the key... Never hold down the mouse button or joystick trigger.

It's like a Gauss that fires every second essentially. Also, the more round you push through, the better your deflection aiming gets. I can hit targets moving tangentially at 500 meters almost every time.

My favorite is getting circle strafed from lights, they don't realize I can pop them in close or at range. Most die running away...

The learning curve was tough... I jammed ALOT at first. But 1000 drops later, not so much anymore.

My rig-

300xl
368 points armor
Endosteel
Double heat sinks
3uac5 225 rounds(9tons)
3 ml or 2 ml and one flamer

No chain firing allowed. Drop the hammer, learn through practice and hard knocks. You'll learn fast no to hold button when faced with a mean group on Assaults in front of you.

Keep moving... Get all basics at x2 and elite, ... Get master module, and get the modules that suit your pay style.

And look for me in game. I'll be in one of the following... a Firebrand, a Misery, this Ilya, or my trusty quad ac2 Cataphract 4x.

[Flak Kannon]

WarGruf, on 10 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Urm the AC5 / UAC5 builds are good but an Muromet without Double Guass, 3 Mediums, rocking a 300XL is otherwise a waste to be fair...

The Dakka is Great dont get me wrong... But for pure Battlefield Power and the ability to kill Everything. Its got to be Dual Guass 5 ton of ammo.

Have fun.

I disagree. You CAN'T accurately aim dual gauss when triple Uac5's are rocking your cockpit with wicked shake.
I have been missed again and again by ballistic boats as I change speed and peppered them non stop with cockpit shake. I worry more about ppcs boats and lasers boats than dual gauss or dual ac20s builds when I'm in my Ilya.

Tho I might give your build a test spin.

Edited by Flak Kannon, 10 July 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Benjamin Davion]

WarGruf, on 10 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Urm the AC5 / UAC5 builds are good but an Muromet without Double Guass, 3 Mediums, rocking a 300XL is otherwise a waste to be fair...

The Dakka is Great dont get me wrong... But for pure Battlefield Power and the ability to kill Everything. Its got to be Dual Guass 5 ton of ammo.

Have fun.

May try this. I'm currently running with one Gauss and I like it...

Flak Kannon, on 10 July 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

I have only two groups. I fire all three ML's at once and all three UAC5's at once....but, big but.. I almost never double tap.

Every 1.1 - 1.5 seconds I send down range an accurate 15 points damage. I have shot this kannon so much, it's a part of me. I rarely jam. That's the key... Never hold down the mouse button or joystick trigger.

It's like a Gauss that fires every second essentially. Also, the more round you push through, the better your deflection aiming gets. I can hit targets moving tangentially at 500 meters almost every time.

My favorite is getting circle strafed from lights, they don't realize I can pop them in close or at range. Most die running away...

The learning curve was tough... I jammed ALOT at first. But 1000 drops later, not so much anymore.

My rig-

300xl
368 points armor
Endosteel
Double heat sinks
3uac5 225 rounds(9tons)
3 ml or 2 ml and one flamer

No chain firing allowed. Drop the hammer, learn through practice and hard knocks. You'll learn fast no to hold button when faced with a mean group on Assaults in front of you.

Keep moving... Get all basics at x2 and elite, ... Get master module, and get the modules that suit your pay style.

And look for me in game. I'll be in one of the following... a Firebrand, a Misery, this Ilya, or my trusty quad ac2 Cataphract 4x.

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to try and put this build back together. Pretty sure I've seen you out in your AC2 build. BEAST. I run a lot of different mechs (Champion Jenner, X-5, Blackjack-3, Stalker, LRM Catapult, rarely a Centurion, and more lately an ERPPC Spider.) Hard to find a definite trend there, but I'm painting all of my mechs red and black lately, so that may help! I'll drop you a friend request, I'd love to drop with you some time.

[Sug]

CaptOven, on 09 July 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

The 3 ML 3 UAC/5 has been known by The Garth as the "Ziggy Piggy" Mech. If you're baffled watch Bill and Ted Excellent Adventures again

Still baffled....

[Pastor Priest]

Sug, on 10 July 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

[size=4]

Still baffled....

And this is why you fail

The dual guass and three ML is nice. I will say I am more consistent with it and get cleaner kills. I tend to get between 400-500 on average with 2-3 kills and multiple assists. But, if I want to go full on carnage, I go triple UAC5. It is a lot of fun. It also gave me my best ever score in the Ilya.

http://s1276.photobu...html?sort=3&o=0