20 replies to this topic

[xtase]

All my Stalker builds (3F, 3H and 5M) are too slow with 255-280 STD engines to keep up with the team, I'm always either alone in the back trying to catch up and then I get caught by the whole enemy team going around my team. Other times I'm with my team and they decide to run away from 3 mechs or chase a light mech I'm left alone with out the speed to run away with them.

I rarely see Stalkers, is it because they are completely ****** in terms of meta balance ? Firepower is useless if you can't get in position and just die.

[RLBell]

Been there, done that, they do not give out t-shirts.

I am fond of stalkers and I have five of the six (all but the -4N), but I am not the best MechWarrior (I started in January of 2013 and have only recently nudged my KDR to 1.03). That being said, my -3H KDR is over 2.0. In my opinion, the two best engines for a stalker are the STD 300, and the XL 300. Either 300 engine will push your speed to 57kph (62.9 with speed tweak), but the two engines are for two very different play styles.

The STD 300 is for the wade forward and deliver stalker that appreciates that losing a side torso often removes half of your weapons, but only a quarter of your heatsinks -- yay, shutdowns become less frequent! The 'STD Stalker' mounts medium lasers and SRMS, plus a (ER) large laser, or two. The large lasers are to keep the enemies behind cover as you approach, or to shoot fleeing enemies in the back. You cannot mount enough heat sinks to keep even four medium lasers firing, so never fire the large lasers if you have targets within 270 meters.

The 'XL Stalker' is for high alpha builds (multiple large lasers), PPC snipers, or missile boats like my -3H (two LRM5's, two LRM20's, Artemis, BAP, three ML's, TAG, and ten tons of ammo). The XL engine does two things: first, it gives you the available tonnage to fill every nearly every crit slot with something (most often double heat sinks [I have no use for endosteel structure or ferrofibrous armor]); second, it give the speed to be where you are needed.

Not all Stalkers can mount the STD 300 engine, so you make do with what you can cram in there. The sad fact is that stalkers abandoned by their team often die. Most Stalkers can keep up with most Atlases, so you can try to buddy up to a slow assault. If there is another stalker with a similar build to yours (use team chat to ask), link up with it and stay by its side. Stalkers are very much team players. Two stalkers close enough to each other for mutual support, but far enough apart that they cannot both be circled at the same time are a nightmare for a light lance.

If you get connected with a teamspeak group, things get much better, as you ask them to not outrun you, or doubleback to help you out.

If you are caught alone by a light, and do not have an XL engine, just be patient. You only have to hit the light once, you have time to wait for that good shot, so keep cool (figuratively and literally). The only light with the firepower to really cripple a Stalker is the six medium laser jenner, but they have worse heat issues than Stalkers.

As a stalker MechWarrior, you will overheat and shut down in front of the enemy. If you only do it in front of one enemy at a time, you can still prevail, but you should still be aware of your heat and have a button that only chain fires your lasers. Not shutting down at all is the sign of a great stalker pilot. When you master that, please teach me how.

[Mycrus]

All lights can cripple a lone stalker... Any decent light pilot can perpetually stay at a stalkers back and blow both side torsos off effectively making the stalker into a stick...

My 4 med lazors TDK's favorite snack is assault side torsos...

[anubis969]

The Stalker is one of my favourite 'mechs but it isn't an easy 'mech to use. Positioning is crucial because it's so easy to get left behind at which point you're in serious trouble. As I'm sure you've found Stalkers are not just slow but thanks to their large side profile are vulnerable to flanking and due to their limited torso twist not great in a brawl.

Personally I'd never run a Stalker with an engine lower than 300 for the simple reason that puggies won't wait for you. One thing I will say is that it does get a lot better once you get speed tweak.

Of my Stalkers the most used are my 3F and Misery. This is the build I run in my 3F:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7fa6f1b97934687

It's mainly designed to be a versatile support 'mech. But I'd caution against copying it because it is not by any stench of the imagination a meta build nor is it an easy build to use effectively. I use it because I personally find it fun and I'm mainly just putting it here for inspiration.

In terms of meta, despite ghost heat the LL boat is still one of the most competitive builds going. However it is painfully slow and requires you to manage your weapon groups to avoid cooking yourself.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...98f7763891a7358

Edited by anubis969, 21 October 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[Eaerie]

Run them with at least a STD 300 engine. You dont get a ton of extra speed but it really improves your manuverability.
I run my -3F with 4 ERLLas and 4 SSRM2's makes those pesky lights think twice about zipping around me. If you do get caught out alone put your back to a wall is about the best advice I can give.

[Night Fury76]

xtase, on 21 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

All my Stalker builds (3F, 3H and 5M) are too slow with 255-280 STD engines to keep up with the team, I'm always either alone in the back trying to catch up and then I get caught by the whole enemy team going around my team. Other times I'm with my team and they decide to run away from 3 mechs or chase a light mech I'm left alone with out the speed to run away with them.

I rarely see Stalkers, is it because they are completely ****** in terms of meta balance ? Firepower is useless if you can't get in position and just die.

Use the standard 300 engine and learn to torso twist to spread the damage around.
All assualts need to think well ahead of time as to where they should be because they lack the speed to correct mistakes
With arm lock off they are better then a battlemaster, with armlock on, go a battlemaster

[Modo44]

You are piloting a barn on legs. It will not turn quickly, nor will it be able to run away from a fight (walking back while shooting works better). Think before you move.Try hard to put the 300 engine in there, or at least a 275 with Speed Tweak. Ask medium/heavy pilots to be your wingmen, or follow an Atlas and be his.

My current build, after mastering the thing and trying multiple approaches, is 2xPPC+4xML+4xSSRM2. It has enough cooling and firepower to take on big targets in a fair fight. If you manage to hide, you can put out a continuous stream of lightning into enemy faces. The streaks and MLs quickly dispatch any light that jumps "the sniper". (You do want the lasers in 4 different locations, so that they track any target even if you slightly miss.)

Edited by Modo44, 21 October 2013 - 11:05 PM.

[scJazz]

I will add this... frequently one of the last things I see before I get thrown to the Death Screen is a Stalkers full front profile.

There is a very strong tendency for New Players to pick the "Sniper/Medium range" mech. Decide that the best type for the job is an Assault. Build a Stalker with a zillion LRMs, start the match, move 200m and spam the Lock key and Fire button.

Assault mechs require skill, situational awareness, thorough map knowledge, damage distribution ability, and aim to pilot. They are too slow to get out of the wrong spot quickly, easily left behind and isolated, and easy to hit.

[Eaerie]

If you have to charge an enemy do it dead on, your hitboxes are actually pretty small if the enemy has to look down your nose so the damage will spread a lot easier. but if they come at you from one side your ST profile is HUGE.
If you must snipe/lrm boat with one STAY near the pack (especially if you PUG) and if you do start getting harrassed by a light TARGET it. Most times in PUG's if you are close to the pack and target a mech that is right on top of you the rest of the pack turn into dogs that suddenly saw a squirrel.

[Sadistic Savior]

xtase, on 21 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

All my Stalker builds (3F, 3H and 5M) are too slow with 255-280 STD engines to keep up with the team, I'm always either alone in the back trying to catch up and then I get caught by the whole enemy team going around my team.

Stay in the back and let your team make contact first. If you are constantly getting left behind, it means your engine is too small, and you need to buy a bigger one.

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Other times I'm with my team and they decide to run away from 3 mechs or chase a light mech I'm left alone with out the speed to run away with them.

So don't chase light mechs. Go after heavy ones. Assault mechs are not designed to chase after lights.

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I rarely see Stalkers, is it because they are completely ****** in terms of meta balance?

LOL! No. Stalkers are probably the hardest-to-kill mech in the game IMO (Spiders are harder, but only when they are moving because they are hard to hit). The cockpit hitbox in particular is difficult to hit on stalkers unless you are looking down at them.

The problem is your tactics, not the mech. And that will probably only be solved through experience (trial and error). Get a bigger engine and shift your tactics to a close support role instead of a brawling role and I think you will see better results.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 22 October 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Macbrea]

The sad fact is a good light pilot in a Locus or Commando will easily take down a Stalker that has been left alone. I discovered a fatal flaw of the Stalker in my Locus a couple days ago. If the Locus charges a Stalker and goes under it's chin the Stalker cannot bring it's laser weapons to bear on the Locus. It's too small and the Stalker actually cannot look down at the little Mech. All the Locus has to do it stay up against the Assault mech firing and drive it into the dirt.

If you are less suicidal as a light pilot you can simply move behind it and walk back and forth removing it's rear armor. You have to have cover support or Streak SRM2 + BAP + 360 Target Retention. Once, you can get some other mechs to help you, the life expectancy of the Light goes down drastically.

Edited by Macbrea, 22 October 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[MadCat02]

xtase, on 21 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

All my Stalker builds (3F, 3H and 5M) are too slow with 255-280 STD engines to keep up with the team, I'm always either alone in the back trying to catch up and then I get caught by the whole enemy team going around my team. Other times I'm with my team and they decide to run away from 3 mechs or chase a light mech I'm left alone with out the speed to run away with them.

I rarely see Stalkers, is it because they are completely ****** in terms of meta balance ? Firepower is useless if you can't get in position and just die.

The esiest way to play a stalker is 2 ER LArge lasers +3 large lasers .21 double heatsinks and ferrofibrous with STD 300

I personally think stalker is the best mech in the game .

[Modo44]

Macbrea, on 22 October 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

If the Locus charges a Stalker and goes under it's chin the Stalker cannot bring it's laser weapons to bear on the Locus.

What about the torso lasers? Did your target have any?

[Bunduki]

Eaerie, on 21 October 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Run them with at least a STD 300 engine. You dont get a ton of extra speed but it really improves your manuverability.I run my -3F with 4 ERLLas and 4 SSRM2's makes those pesky lights think twice about zipping around me. If you do get caught out alone put your back to a wall is about the best advice I can give.

I've racked up over 1000 damage with the same basic build; usual is considerably less. If you keep yourself in a support role and concentrate fire on whichever enemy mech your team is shooting at, you can contribute quite a bit - so long as you watch your heat. On the other hand, if your team out distances you and a coordinated flock of enemy lights with ECM (negating your streaks) start circling you, you'll get a feeling for how Custer felt at the Little Big Horn; believe me I know, as exactly this happened to me the other day.

[Macbrea]

Modo44, on 22 October 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

What about the torso lasers? Did your target have any?

The top of your head only reaches up to the waist of the Stalker. Their torso weapons are actually fired from behind you when your pushing on their legs. The only issue with this process is you will slowly take leg damage if you don't keep pressing into the Stalker. You will also take 1-2 leg damage when first impacting with them. Knock down would fix this.

[Dexter Herbivore]

No STD-300 engine and no support against lights makes Stalker something something.

[Kraven Kor]

Assaults live and die by their teammates and their attention to where the enemy is.

If you are with friends and all firing in the same direction, you are doing it right. If you are behind the main line offering LRM or sniper support, with a light and a medium ready to peel off and come save you should the need arise, you are doing it right.

If you are standing by yourself getting whittled apart by enemy lights, you (or your team) are doing it wrong. If you are running directly at an Atlas thinking you can take him down before he takes you down, you are likely doing it wrong.

[Igorius]

It's been said before, but I'll say it again to reiterate: if you're running a Stalker, make sure you've got "friends" with you. You're a hammer when you're running a lone Stalker, not a sword (or a scalpel, if you're coming from playing lights exclusively). Pick another big 'Mech (Atlases are kinda a dime a dozen and therefor implicit, but a Victor or Highlander make wonderful assault-mates, too), or see if a friendly Cataphract or Centurion will flank you. The shape of the Stalker really implies how best to use it, if you think about it. A well-piloted Stalker is the sharp point of an organized attack, and needs sharp edges supporting it for its role to be effective. While being a lone hammer has its perks, there really is something so satisfying to watching your teammates rip a disintegrating enemy line to pieces as you gut through their toughest defenses.

[Autobot9000]

Well a 250ish engine is too slow for every Stalker build, you simply shouldn't be doing this. For me any engine between 275 and 310 is ok for a Stalker, they allow you to keep up with the group (275 being enough for this task). Hence upgrading your engine should already allow you to get rid of your problem.

As a next step I would say consider the fact, that your Stalker performs poorly alone. You can run plenty of humanoid mechs with a ballistic slot (and speeds above 70 kph) around alone, but the Stalker just can't do that. Why? Because lasers do not grant you a high average DPS and hence if you're caught alone quite often you're not in the best position to defend yourself. The Stalker is an excellent support mech - probably the best fire support in the game. Play him like this and you'll be fine.

Edited by Autobot9000, 22 October 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[King Arthur IV]

you prob haven't seen them lately because everyone is playing with their new toys (phoenix package) and the other new chassis in the past months.

in my experience, unless you are behind it, stalkers are near impossible to kill. their hit boxes are positioned such that from the front or side certain locations are hard to keep your sights on.

you might be running with 4 mans that just ditch you because they are on coms doing their own thing.