35 replies to this topic

[Jaegerwulf]

I have been mostly playing my SHD-2H(P) in order to both progress towards all the elite skills, and earning the c-bills to upgrade my other PP mechs with dhs and endosteel.

I am finding that no matter what I do I quite often die much more quickly than ever.

I try to play "follow the atlas/other asaults" only to find that in a lot of my (PuG only) matches the assaults don't do much assaulting. so I try to play follow the pack, but then I get frustrated and I can't get any good shots in through the inevitable bottle neck and get cored by lights from behind.

and of course going off on my own is a forgone conclusion.

I have also tried asking in team chat if there is a plan. inevitably I get response like "don't Die" and "kill stuff".

So what does one do to try to make the most of pugs? (especially in terms of earning c bills)

[Mootrix]

Your issue sounds more like it is PUG play than a mech build. When all else fails try a more support long range build rather than melee, dropping weapons in favour of full armour may also help you survive

[Eaerie]

Well it does sound like a bad few pug groups, it happens. Just a couple notes though, Did you change the loadouts on the shadowhawks, i know at least one of them has very poor armor stock. If the lights are sneaking up on you keep watching yours and everyone back if you cant get a shot thru the crowd. I like having a few SSRM2's loaded up for those lights.

[Jaegerwulf]

on my SHD-2H(P) i have ditched the lrm5 and the srm 2 and put in 3 ssrm2's, kept the ml, and the ac5. armor is 304 of 370.

I find aim wise I do better and mid range fire support, sort of on the threshold between advanced zoom being useful and advanced zoom being too much zoom lol

also what modules should I be looking at on my shadow hawks?

[Eaerie]

siesmic sensor and advanved sensor range is what I use most times.
Been trying out my -2H(p) as a fast harrasser. XL300, 353 armor, 3 SSRM2's, 3MG's, and a LPL

you could give an AC10 build a try. I have had good luck with that but still playing around with builds so not using it currently.

[Phlinger]

I only drop in PuGs. The times of day matter a lot when it comes to different load outs, you have to play a few PuG matches and get a feel for whats going on at that time. Sometimes it's brawl heavy matches, other times it's hide and snipe matches. I usually have 3 different builds loaded on my Hawks and then my Jagermech loaded up for when I just get frustrated and want to core a few people.

I've been messing around with a decent SDH-5M build that works well for when the long range crowd is in town.

2 Large Lasers
AC/10 with 3 tons of ammo
275XL that comes stock in it.
Up the armor to max with 43 on both legs and have fun. You can alpha at range for 28 points with this sucker and just pop back around the corner, when someone notices you, sprint away to a new spot near buddies and back them up.

When the brawl crowd is around, load up either the (P) or the 2D2 and have fun playing with streaks.

The ShadowHawk is a great mech, my favorite of the Pheonix mechs.

Also, remember that after you have been playing it and melting faces for a bit, you get bumped into a higher ELO bracket, so you have to learn different tactics. The higher you go, the riskier it is to be out in the open or without friends nearby. The other day I got the privelege of being able to hunt down a Dev, was pretty fun He was hiding under a bridge trying to spot for his team, tricky guy. I just wished they would drop more often to PuG it up.

[Night Fury76]

I've run that build of eaerie's and get very good damage. best being around 1000
Just keep moving and aim for the backs

[Sadistic Savior]

Jaegerwulf, on 21 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I have been mostly playing my SHD-2H(P) in order to both progress towards all the elite skills, and earning the c-bills to upgrade my other PP mechs with dhs and endosteel.

I am finding that no matter what I do I quite often die much more quickly than ever.

I try to play "follow the atlas/other asaults" only to find that in a lot of my (PuG only) matches the assaults don't do much assaulting. so I try to play follow the pack, but then I get frustrated and I can't get any good shots in through the inevitable bottle neck and get cored by lights from behind.

and of course going off on my own is a forgone conclusion.

I have also tried asking in team chat if there is a plan. inevitably I get response like "don't Die" and "kill stuff".

So what does one do to try to make the most of pugs? (especially in terms of earning c bills)

Shadowhawks seem specifically designed for hit-and-run flanking.

I love mine, and I do not even like medium mechs usually. But This thing is like a fast jump-capable hunchback. With and AC/20 and dual medium lasers I find I can make mincemeat out of many lights (even spiders). The Shadowhawk is fast enough to track them up close and actually hit with the AC/20, and jumpjets give it similar mobility.

I also use it to flank lone heavies and assaults. While the enemy assault is preoccupied with that Jager or Atlas on my team, I slip around back and nail them from behind with the AC/20. If I hit and leave immediately, they can't even get a shot back.

Do not try to play it like an Assault. You won't have the armor and the real heavies will make wreckage of you quick. You need to play it more like a heavy light. More hit and run. Stay mobile and moving. I play Heavies and Assaults almost exclusively, but I adore this mech. it is very fun to play and I get more kills with it than I do the assault mechs I play.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 22 October 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I've been running a build similar to this SHD-2H.

Give an AC/20 a try.

[DEMAX51]

I've been using mine as a poptart with a PPC, two AC5s, 3 JJs and an XL 250(? I think). You've got to stay behind cover so as not to get killed quickly, but I've had a pretty decent run with it.

[King Arthur IV]

gauss hawk is doing well for me! snipe snipe snipe and they wont know where its coming from.

iv been playing with ppc so much that switching to the gauss was amazing!! the projectile velocity is so much faster its very easy to hit the enemy even at extreme range.

[Jaegerwulf]

hmmmm okay I think maybe my issue is i have been trying to play like I have been playing my jagers (got my 3 jagers maxed). I am often leary of using autocannons bigger than 5's because of the ammo/ton limitations.

so correct me if I misunderstand but so far it seems like for playing the shadowhawks to play peek-a-boo more, and/or find the one or 2 loners to start and hopefully by the time I get back to the main battle my team is still mostly alive and I can get some assists hehe.

I also need build suggestions for the 2d2 and the 5m...

also wondering if I should try lb10 and 2 mg on the balistic hard points of the 2h(p)

[CarnifexMaximus]

These have been working out for me:
2D2, 113 KPH, 2xLL, 4xsSRM2s
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...725acbdfc88bb2c
This is cheese, I will fully admit. I'm not used to seeing lights turn and run though, so I am getting some laughs out of it. Its really hot. Im hoping double basics will make things easier.

5M, 90 KPH, AC/20, 2x MLs
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d06255ec870034d
By far my most effective. I know the SHD is really coming into its own as a light killer, but I am having too much fun with this setup.

the 2H is the only one I am struggling with. I tried the 3 MGs, LPL (or PPC) and 3 sSRM2s for some time but I honestly cant see a freakin thing out of my cockpit when I shoot the MGs. I had one stellar match with it and then chucked it, good enough for me. I am playing around with a UAC/5 and AC/2 combo right now, but its lots of tonnage to get a 7 Damage medium-long range AC setup on there, pretty sure its not worth it.

edit: Armor Values on the 2D2

Edited by CarnifexMaximus, 22 October 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[xengk]

Jaegerwulf, on 22 October 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

hmmmm okay I think maybe my issue is i have been trying to play like I have been playing my jagers (got my 3 jagers maxed). I am often leary of using autocannons bigger than 5's because of the ammo/ton limitations.

so correct me if I misunderstand but so far it seems like for playing the shadowhawks to play peek-a-boo more, and/or find the one or 2 loners to start and hopefully by the time I get back to the main battle my team is still mostly alive and I can get some assists hehe.

I also need build suggestions for the 2d2 and the 5m...

also wondering if I should try lb10 and 2 mg on the balistic hard points of the 2h(p)

If you prefer to follow the brawl instead of going guerrilla style.
I have this weird 2H build that I use.
SHD-2H
2x UAC/5 w 4t ammo
3x SSRM2 w 1t ammo
BAP
STD 200

This thing move as fast as an Atlas, so they are your best buddy.
If no Atlas is available, any slow Assault will do but preferably something without jump jet to expose the slow medium mech behind them.
The idea is to snipe from behind a teammate and pump out as much damage as possible before the gun jams.
Defend them from harassing lights with SSRM2+BAP.
You can replace the UAC/5 with standard AC/5 if you want and free up 2 tons.

[Jaegerwulf]

hmmmm not sure i like the idea of moving that slow.... so anyone know of an existing thread or threads where I might read up on 'guerilla' tactics that might work with the shadowhawks?

[Eaerie]

If you like moving fast look thru the light mech forums and the various shadowhawk threads that are up now. Light mech tactics are probably more along your guerilla tactics you want.
Basically you want to move to a good spot, take a couple shots then move into new cover popping out long enough to shoot a couple more times. Once you get a feel you will be able to guess when you can use the same cover multiple times or if it is time to high tail it out of there.

[Duncan Longwood]

I love the shadowhawk. My favorite is the 3xSSRMs, 3xMG, LPL build. I would not recommend lowering the armor on the legs of this 'mech; I abuse the jump-jets to distribute damage and it's not uncommon to die from getting "legged". I have had many games with +100 for my match-score and I have made over 300k in a match with this build.

Tips:

Set the streaks up on chain-fire to cause maximum screen shake for your opponents.

Use your jumpjets to distribute damage in a brawl. Watch your leg damage and switch up how you are circle-strafing to protect the damaged leg. (ex. Clockwise until right leg is battered, then switch to counter-clockwise)

Because of the ability to soak damage, this mech can be used as a line-breaker to counter endless ridge-humping that assault mechs in pugs are prone to engage in. This works well on lance vs lance scale conflicts. If your assaults won't lead the charge, you can at least set them up to shoot the bad-guys in the back.

You can use your jumpjets during a charge to vault over enemy mechs forcing them to choose whether to take damage from you on their back or your team on their front. Most players just freak out and start shooting wildly or shooting every target in the charge once instead of focusing fire.

This mech is best played aggressively, which is easy to confuse with playing foolishly. Experiment and see what you can get away with. Everyone dies, but my death will be a glorious shower of fire and spark.

Hope this helps... good luck!

[JKohn]

Jaegerwulf, on 21 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I am finding that no matter what I do I quite often die much more quickly than ever.

I find great success with the Shadow Hawk, and I dont feel like I do anything particularly special in a round, it could be that the game tosses you into the game with very different ELO rating than your standard mech? Not sure about how that works though, but personally when I play my SHD I feel like my team is also a bit better, and when I play Thunderbone it feels like the team is a bit sucky, not sure...

With Shadow Hawk I tend to lead a bit with the lights since I got at least 80kph speed, initiate combat, trade some shots and call in enemy positions. After receiving a bit, I back off and switch to medium range fire support for the chargers and suiciders. After the mid game is switching to late game and there's some deaths, I try to stick with the remaining group(s) and do some harassing while picking off injured enemy mechs, possibly tanking a bit too if we have plenty of mechs in dire condition.

It feels like a thing that works, and that's not how it always goes, sometimes not at all, but it's what I've often noticed how things unfold and work quite well. Use movement a lot when you're starting to feel pressure and seek cover from allies and objects. Dont hesitate to sit a while in safety while assessing the situation if you take too much damage quickly. Nearly cored mech can still deal its full damage and is a lot more useful alive than tanking few hits more and end up on enemy teams scavenging bonus.

[mailin]

All of my Shadowhawks are built around a single concept: Light killer. To that end, I have XLs in all of them (Between XL300 and XL330) streaks and a BAP. On the Phoenix variant, I have 3 mgs and a LL in addition, on the 2D2 I have 2 mlas, and on the 5M I have 2 mals and an AC 10. Oh, and only a single jump jet. I typically do at least 300 damage and have gotten as high as 800. If you spot a light chase him down, only giving up when he retreats to his team or is joined by more than a single ECM light. Hope this helps.

[Denolven]

Jaegerwulf, on 21 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

So what does one do to try to make the most of pugs? (especially in terms of earning c bills)

The best is to think of what you want to do, what role you want to fit in, and then try to max out for that role.
The Shadowhawks are very versatile, so many roles work well enough. But you will still have fights where you are of limited use, simply because there is no need for the role you picked. Don't let that drag you down. Next game might be exactly what you are made for.

I play my 2D2 as a light hunter (SSRM, ERLL, TAG, BAP). Pretty damn effective at that. But if there are no lights, I'm just a medium distraction I guess. Speed for defence.

My 5M is a weapon platform. It uses the STD180 engine that I got from my Blackjack (side torsos are too big for my taste). Moves at only 50 kph, but has an AC20, medium lasers and Streaks, so it can handle pretty much anything that pops up. Walk together with your other slowbies and shoot the stuff they are shooting. Seems so work, although I didn't play it alot.

The 2H has a somewhat special place, because it's the only medium Mech that can handle triple AC2. I love that weapon, it's versatile and reliable - somehow it seems to be my thing. However, it's a bit weird to play, because of the weapon positions. They are high mounted, but also vertically aligned. So look for hill-type cover and use the left edge of it. Do long range combat (Advanced Zoom), and when you see a hole in their formation or a single guy, strike!
Triple AC2 can shred even the biggest mech, and it has alot of suppression power too. They will retreat most of the time, which can be used to secure large areas (think tower defence: your position and the area you can cover is what matters). And if they think "it's ok, just 2 damage, I can kill him", then you keep pumping those 12 dps into them. Your positioning and the suppression power of the AC2 is your defence, so an XL engine is ok.

All in all, it depends on what you want to do. Decide for one thing, then think about how to maximize that one thing. Light hunter? Flanker? Area suppressor? Brawler? Sniper? ...
Pick a job, then stick to that job. Don't expect awesome results when you try doing something that is not matching your current job. The Shadowhawk allows many things, but you have to pick one.

Edited by Denolven, 23 October 2013 - 03:13 AM.