19 replies to this topic

[Red5angel]

I was thinking the other day about this. First thing, R&R is in my opinion a critical part of the BT universe. It felt right when we had it, taking away took a little sould from the game.

I understand the complaints by people who don't understand how big a part it plays but it could be created as an illusion.

Lets' say right now I average 140K Cbills per game. Instead I see a higher monetary reward displayed, and after all is tallied, I still make about 140K cbills. It is immersive without being intrusive until people can adjust to it.

I understand new people will still possibly have a hard time understanding it, but, they will learn and adjust.

[Soda Popinsky]

Sounds good to me. So you'll on average make about the same, but can go either higher or lower based on damage you sustained.

I suggested a different tactic. Instead of having a monetary cost, have a time cost. Larger, more expensive mechs won't be available on the next drop or two. You can pull undamaged components / modules out of it for your next drop to pop into another mech. This would have the benefit of reducing the number of assaults and heavies, if lights / medium mechs are available right away.

[Red5angel]

I'd be ok with a time option too but that may be too much lol. I get the argument from PGI about why they took it out. someone who doesn't know any better would feel like they were being punished for being new. However I think initially using Trial mechs with no penalties and moving to using your own equipment with penalties would help fix this.

[Soda Popinsky]

When I suggested this a while ago, a follow up suggestion by somebody was you could put your mech on the fast track by spending MC or C-Bills.

[DEMAX51]

In the recent ask the devs (in the question regarding salvage) they did say that R&R was not completely off the table, and that concepts for it and an expanded role of salvage were still being discussed.

Personally, I'd love to see R&R make its way back into the game.

[mikromancer]

when we had it it cost too much to lose a game. ie, it cost 50k cbills to repair/rearm ammo heavy builds, and we were only getting 40k for a loss to begin with...

now that they've nerfed cbill gains the repair/rearm costs would have to be miniscule as at the very least you only get 25k for a match.

I remember running nothing but trial mechs for weeks while I tried to elite my hunchback. it sucked arse.

(also red5angel, youre a crazy **** if you're getting 140k average per match these days. that's about the most I can get even having done a good 700 damage on 12 mechs and double that in savior kills with my atlas. cbill nerf really killed most of my enthusiasm for the game.)

[Hexenhammer]

RnR was removed from the game and that's why we got the cbill Nerf.

Past that I wouldn't mind seeing RnR in the game as a hard core mode. But if RnR is in I want the whole show. Actuator damage, engine damage, HS damage. Sensor damage. All the things that made by fun was dealing with repairs.



As far as 140k average on cbill? Don't know I know my average after some 2000 games is 94,995

Edited by Hexenhammer, 22 October 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Sirous]

They don't have to make R&R back breaking or even that expensive, just have it as a viable option to add that little bit extra feeling of having been in a battle. WarThunder has a pretty good system at LOWER Tiers (Higher Tiers are a little expensive) that seems like it could be viable in this, the more items expensive items you have the more expensive it is and the more time it will take. You could add something to decrease the repair time and costs to the pilot trees, or even add a separate maintenance trees to decrease costs of upgrading weapons and repair times.

I always liked the thought that you had some sort of maintenance crew that traveled and took care of your mechs. If they could find a way to add that to this in a sort of smaller meta game that would be great.

Increase the CBills per match but add small R&R to the mechs, or use time as the other alternative so you don't have to pay.

Edited by Sirous, 22 October 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Escef]

I'd be ok with R&R returning if it was a part of Community Warfare. R&R really only has a place in campaign play in TT, and it's no fun to be out in the field leveling your skills and trying to get c-cills for customization only to find that the PUG team mates you thought had your back suddenly evaporate like dew on a summer morning when you're facing 3+ enemies and you get mercilessly slaughtered through no real fault of your own. But using R&R in CW will reward players for running lighter/cheaper mechs, and may even make for the scenario where a side wins the drop/battle, but it costs them more than it was worth.

E.g.: Steiner won the drop against the Kuritas, but the loss of 9 assault mechs ended up causing a net loss in CW points for the faction. Meanwhile the loss of the 11 light and medium mechs on the Kurita team resulted in a much smaller hit on their faction score, thus allowing the Kuritas to pull forward relative to Steiner.

[RadioKies]

The problem with this is that you'll still have the problem from CB.. thats that the Assault/Atlas driving people will hide even more to gain a little more Cbills if possible. It's allready agonising enough when I/others have to lead the battle in a heavy or medium mech because the Atlai are hiding behind a mountain/hill standing still in a path (TTmordor anyone).If they can solve that part, I'm all in for R&R. Also, ammo needs to be cheaper/looked at when they implement R&R again. Running 3*AC5 is way cheaper than running 2*AC20, even though 3*AC5 does the same or more damage with the same tonnage of ammo.
In previous MW games I allways played with repair but not with rearm on. Needing to pay for lrm/ballistic ammo just seemed way to pricey for what they deliver.

[Deathz Jester]

The majority of the problem is we earn **** for , I remember when I used to make about 200,000 - 250,000 for well played matches and on average matches about 150,000 ish. Now for an excellent match [and I mean even a roflstomp] I earn at most about 160,000 maybe close to 170,000 and thats with premium and using a %30 bonus mech.


Back when they put R&R in, we earned ****, and were basically paying to play in matches unless you had an obscene score. Now while I really do hope R&R comes back, I'd hope they'd revise this horrendously garbage earning system before putting it back in and finding the "sweet spot" for R&R's mechanics.

[Escef]

Iron Harlequin, on 22 October 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Now for an excellent match [and I mean even a roflstomp] I earn at most about 160,000 maybe close to 170,000 and thats with premium and using a %30 bonus mech.

In a Phoenix mech (and I mean one of the (P) variants) with Premium active I get over 200k for a decent game. How are you getting such low payouts?

[Deathz Jester]

Escef, on 23 October 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

In a Phoenix mech (and I mean one of the (P) variants) with Premium active I get over 200k for a decent game. How are you getting such low payouts?

Evidently I didn't turn on the premium today, since I turned it on I earn around the 200 mark, and what is your definition of decent? Its still garbage earnings compared to before. Part of the reason "noobs" get deterred is without spending money on the game you earn {Scrap} and it takes forever to do anything.

[Escef]

Iron Harlequin, on 23 October 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Evidently I didn't turn on the premium today, since I turned it on I earn around the 200 mark, and what is your definition of decent? Its still garbage earnings compared to before. Part of the reason "noobs" get deterred is without spending money on the game you earn {Scrap} and it takes forever to do anything.

I dunno. How about these?

[RadioKies]

So yeah, that kinda proves his point. Without those bonusses you'd get around 120.000 CB(you got a lot of saviour kills). My stats page says this:
Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 95,055.54
There are matches where I win and only get around 64.000 CB.

I also remember a different time.

[Karl Streiger]

The very idea behind a RnR is supply - low tech equipment that is seldom in use must be cheaper as high end equipment that is used more often.
The initial RnR wasn't Repair or Rearm at all. It was simple - if it is broken replace it.

A damaged fusion engine did cost the same price as a new one (mostly) - FF armor repair was outstanding expensive - what was complete nonsense - the most simple and cheap fix must be to replace damaged armor.

Next to that critical damage have to get more importance - and i think its only possible when you increase the internal HP of Mechs. make internal structure as though as external armor - add different stages of damage:

a AC 20 is really sturdy - next to its 18 hp its 10 crits big - so that a single damage will only damage 1/10th of the weapon - maybe it could still work - even with reduced accuracy, damage, rof, heat capacity....(if something is in game)

So battle is won by Mechs that are stripped of armor - and clumsy and inaccurate for piloting because of sustained gyro and acctuator hits.

With such Mechs repair become important - there is a chance that your techs are not able to repair high tech equipment - so you have to salvage what you can and buy a new one.
Low Tech equipment could be repaired more often - with only a fraction of costs.

So it become a good idea to use more low tech equipment.
Same for rearm - when you or all players in the game use excessive ammunition the costs explode (although i wouldn't want to add penaltys to players that don't use excessive ammunition (2-4tons for mech and ammunition type)

[Escef]

RadioKies, on 23 October 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

So yeah, that kinda proves his point. Without those bonusses you'd get around 120.000 CB(you got a lot of saviour kills). My stats page says this:
Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 95,055.54
There are matches where I win and only get around 64.000 CB.

I also remember a different time.

Honestly, it's the savior kills, they buff c-bill rewards up a lot by themselves, and then factor into the bonuses. As for proving his point, I've seen others argue his point and cite much lower figures. Are the payouts lower now? Sure. Are they as low as under R&R? Not to my recollection, but I also wasn't terribly good back then, and there was no real match making then either, so good players and pre-mades ate newbies for breakfast.

Edited by Escef, 23 October 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[FinsT]

Hexenhammer, on 22 October 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

...
Past that I wouldn't mind seeing RnR in the game as a hard core mode. But if RnR is in I want the whole show. Actuator damage, engine damage, HS damage. Sensor damage. All the things that made by fun was dealing with repairs.
...

This. Really.

Indeed, make it optional. I know for a fact many people wouldn't like R&R; and many builds are not exactly R&R-friendly (assault-class brawler with no long-range weapons would need many times more repairs than, say, an LRM boat; on average, i mean).

Perhaps reward more GXP for using R&R mode to make it worthwhile? Perhaps, twice more - with same c-bill rewards, that is, so R&R would reduce c-bills income much, but increase GXP income much, eh? This way, R&R costs might be significant, - and still be worth to take, whenever one is after GXP and not c-bills. With (possibly) adding more things GXP can be used for, especially things related to player level and similar things, - the R&R mode might become a great thing without any increase to current c-bills rewards.

[Sirous]

FinsT, on 23 October 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

This. Really.

Indeed, make it optional. I know for a fact many people wouldn't like R&R; and many builds are not exactly R&R-friendly (assault-class brawler with no long-range weapons would need many times more repairs than, say, an LRM boat; on average, i mean).

Perhaps reward more GXP for using R&R mode to make it worthwhile? Perhaps, twice more - with same c-bill rewards, that is, so R&R would reduce c-bills income much, but increase GXP income much, eh? This way, R&R costs might be significant, - and still be worth to take, whenever one is after GXP and not c-bills. With (possibly) adding more things GXP can be used for, especially things related to player level and similar things, - the R&R mode might become a great thing without any increase to current c-bills rewards.

During Closed beta when R&R was implemented running an LRM Boat could actually cost you quite a bit of money if you happened to fire off all of your LRM's and only get few assists. They don't even have to make it that much to repair and rearm you mechs, maybe 1/10th the cost. But increase the amount of money we and make it unable to be used again until fully repaired either through time or cbill costs.
Sadly they should have kept R&R in throughout and kept tweaking the amount made per game and the costs of repairing and rearming till it hit the happy medium. The problem is they are not going to please everyone and that is what they are trying to do.
I miss the R&R feature, it could have added a whole new level to this game, a whole new pilot tree to possibly unlock or maintenance tree for a fictitious maintenance crew to unlock, say repairing armor costs less time and cbills, repairing Energy weapons, rearming ballistics and missiles costs less because one of your maintenance crew has some black market dealings or an 'in' with one of the manufacturers.

[Deathz Jester]

So someone mentioned component damage like the arm actuator, leg actuator, sensors, etc. Do you mean something like hey I just finished a match and my arm was blown off so now until I get it repaired that arm has a %10 penalty to its range of movement and movement speed? Or hey my cockpit was blown out last match so now its being "fixed" and my sensors have %5 reduced range and %10 lock penalty or %10 penalty to target information time?


cause that would be sort of awesome and fear inducing.