131 replies to this topic

[Wispsy]

I fail to see how one would need an external program to get around ghost heat...is shooting the 2nd half of your weapons half a second later for continuous dps really that challenging?

Whatever...


I would not be opposed to Large Lasers and Large Pulse being different though...

Edited by Wispsy, 24 October 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Heffay]

3rdworld, on 24 October 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

If it is NBD, than the only thing it does is lower mech customization and ruin configs that could be a valid option but aren't because of 1+1=3

It increases mech customization. If you want to maximize your DPS while minimizing heat, you have to pick other weapons.

[Fuggles]

Thou can still use LLs fine now, I run a 5LL stalker all the time. Ghost heat is needed to keep time to live reasonable. You used to be able to ridge hump and blast ppl with 36-54 point alphas into a single body section, basically slicing parts of Mechs.

Now you have to group them into groups of 2, and fire them overtime wich spreads damage out and is quite honestly a lot less brutal.

Ppc nerfs were needed in addition to ghost heat because quite frankly they were just too good even as a single weapon compared to other lasers. Erppcs were overnerfed but ppcs are just fine atm.

[Bagheera]

FupDup, on 24 October 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

What mech can hold 4 LL in the same body part?

HBK-4P, and before you protest, it was actually great for lulz with 4LL sometime during closed beta, if slow. When I crammed 5 in there was when it went south.

I occasionally want to go back to that build for the lulz, but ghost heat won't let me.

Which of course doesn't justify a mechanic that would only affect one variant, but there ya go.

Edited by Bagheera, 24 October 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

It'd rather see a module that increases the limit for a specific weapon/weapon type.

I do find it 'unrealistic' that medium lasers are the only ones not suffering.

[kuangmk11]

4 large laser builds are still really powerful even with ghost heat. I am running 4 on my k2, all my stalkers, and my 733p. I almost never alpha them and rarely fire more than one at a time. I tend to employ the "constant beam" method. Macroing lasers is really not necessary.

here are 2 screenshots taken yesterday afternoon:




Obviously this is just my personal experience. I have spent a lot of time in a 4LL stalker. I also hate ghost heat but I feel like lasers have gotten off the easiest and medium lasers should actually be dropped to 4.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 24 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

It'd rather see a module that increases the limit for a specific weapon/weapon type.

I do find it 'unrealistic' that medium lasers are the only ones not suffering.

I just hope ballistics are looked at first before such changes are made with MLs.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 24 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

It'd rather see a module that increases the limit for a specific weapon/weapon type.

I do find it 'unrealistic' that medium lasers are the only ones not suffering.

Please, don't complicate ghost heat even further with special modules interacting with this totally abritrary game mechanic!

Please give Modules something cool to do, to make role warfare interesting, and not to tweak some arbitrary game statistic. We already have way too many of those.

And Medium Lasers do have a max alpha, not sure why you think they are not suffering. The Limit happens to be 6, which means only Hunchback 4P and the Battlemaster might suffer from it, but it's there.

[Victor Morson]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 October 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Please, don't complicate ghost heat even further with special modules interacting with this totally abritrary game mechanic!

Please give Modules something cool to do, to make role warfare interesting, and not to tweak some arbitrary game statistic. We already have way too many of those.

And Medium Lasers do have a max alpha, not sure why you think they are not suffering. The Limit happens to be 6, which means only Hunchback 4P and the Battlemaster might suffer from it, but it's there.

I'd honestly rather have the interactions with Ghost Heat if it's going to stay both being clearly labeled and innate to specific 'mechs, at the very least. i.e. the Swayback can run more lasers, the Awesome can run more PPCs, etc.

Of course I'd rather have it tweak a primary (and again, visible) stat over Ghost Heat.

[FupDup]

Heffay, on 24 October 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Hunchback?

Oh, forgot about the Swayback. Still, that would be a fairly derpy loadout...

[Heffay]

Victor Morson, on 24 October 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

I'd honestly rather have the interactions with Ghost Heat if it's going to stay both being clearly labeled and innate to specific 'mechs, at the very least. i.e. the Swayback can run more lasers, the Awesome can run more PPCs, etc.

I like this solution. Ghost heat limits should be mech dependent. And of course, if you create a build that can suffer from ghost heat, it should be clearly identified in the mech lab when you're building it.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 24 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

It'd rather see a module that increases the limit for a specific weapon/weapon type.

I do find it 'unrealistic' that medium lasers are the only ones not suffering.

I disagree strongly with an additional layer of complexity on top of an already opaque mechanic.

Boating is a symptom; ghost heat is a band-aid. Heat system is the illness.

Cap heat capacity at 30, increase dissipation. Seriously, it's that simple.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

MisterFiveSeven, on 24 October 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I disagree strongly with an additional layer of complexity on top of an already opaque mechanic.

Boating is a symptom; ghost heat is a band-aid. Heat system is the illness.

Cap heat capacity at 30, increase dissipation. Seriously, it's that simple.

I'm even willing to test out having all heat sinks (SHS or DHS) only raising the cap by 1.00 and cut the bonus capacity to 15 (from the current 30) if we do not get a hard cap on Heat Capacity.

According to lore it should be like reaching 14 Heat Points (if we keep the 15), and we can override in MWO, receive damage if going above and we are unlikely to see penalties like in the original, so I'd be fine trying this out.

[mike29tw]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 24 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

It'd rather see a module that increases the limit for a specific weapon/weapon type.

I do find it 'unrealistic' that medium lasers are the only ones not suffering.

Quick, there's a dev reading this thread. Someone come up with a better plan to replace ghost heat !!

[Dago Red]

If we're going to keep Ghost Heat I'd at least like some consistency. If 6 mediums is an acceptable amount to fire then why aren't three large. The damage and heat are close and you're losing a little bit of damage and a lot of tons for more range already.

I mean set base line for what's an acceptable amount of alpha damage and tune it to kick in for a given weapon when you fire enough to go over that amount.

Or you know just get rid of it entirely as an ill conceived mechanic from the get go.

[Sandpit]

I have to disagree completely. I run a 5LL Stalker-5M and have no problems with heat. I also don't alpha strike every time I hit the trigger and know how to use chain fire to have a steady stream of damage without having heat issues. I easily rack up 300+ and many times 500+ damage in a game unless I'm taken out early. Ghost heat doesn't kill beam designs at all. It just makes you play a little smarter if you're going to boat that many weapons in a mech. It's an alpha deterrent (which in my opinion is a good thing although they could have handled the mechanics of how to deter that a bit better) but not a build deterrent at all. If I can steadily fire of 5LLs without overheating then so can anyone else.

[Satan n stuff]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 24 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

It'd rather see a module that increases the limit for a specific weapon/weapon type.

I do find it 'unrealistic' that medium lasers are the only ones not suffering.

Wait, what? There should be no ghost heat at all. If limiting high alphas is all you want there are plenty of ways to do it that don't involve checking several lists to see if your build will magically overheat. Ghost heat nerfed a lot of builds that weren't too great to begin with, and has done exactly nothing to stop the high alpha meta.
If you want to fix the Gauss + PPC combo just add a global cooldown to them so you can't actually fire more than one at a time, or however many you guys feel is appropriate. For example a 1 second delay on all Gauss Rifles and PPCs if one is fired, that's applied before any additional weapons in the group are fired so as to prevent attempts at firing more than one at a time. That way you can just explain that to the newer players instead of confusing them with unintuitive and complicated mechanics.

[Fut]

mike29tw, on 24 October 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Quick, there's a dev reading this thread. Someone come up with a better plan to replace ghost heat !!

Scrap it completely, and add in adverse effects for running a Mech too hot.
You know, the way it should have been done to begin with.

***** n stuff, on 24 October 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Wait, what? There should be no ghost heat at all. If limiting high alphas is all you want there are plenty of ways to do it that don't involve checking several lists to see if your build will magically overheat.

Exactly.

EDIT: Dude! I just noticed that the forums censor your name... check out the quote above. That's pretty funny.

Edited by Fut, 24 October 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I have a couple of 4x LL builds that and they are largely unaffected by the Heat Tax. two weapon groups solves the problem for me. It does require me to expose my mech for an additional 1/2 second and it does require me to accurately aim my weapons longer, but I haven't found it to be a significant issue.

I'm not sure I like the idea of a module to get around the issue. AC 20 is a big enough issue that they put in a crazy heat penalty.

I would actually like to see the pilot/mech tree open up. Instead of having an extra module as the top reward make it a unique benefit for the chassis. Like reduced heat for PPCs for the Awesome. Or an ECM unlock for the Raven, etc

[Khobai]

Players should not bargain with PGI. We do not want ghost heat. Increasing the large laser simply is not a solution because it does not remove ghost heat from the game.