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Know Your Limits, New Players


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#1 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:50 PM

Some advice, if I may be so bold. I've been at this for a little over a year, and some here have been at it significantly longer.

(First thing's first, actually--if you want to know how far a target is, then lock that target ('R') and look at the range number over the red box. If you want a range to a non-target, or to a target covered under ECM, just point your crosshairs on it--the range will be indicated on your HUD.)

So, new folks, a few very VERY important limits:

LRM: MINIMUM range is 180 meters. If you fire them at a target less than 180 meters away, they will do ZERO damage. It's a waste of ammo. Unless you want to dump the ammo to mitigate a potential ammo explosion, and I doubt that's often the case, save the heat and fire something else. If the target is close to 180 meters and closing, don't bother--the missiles may well hit it at under 180, and will not explode.

Also, if there's a hill or building or something right in front of you, you may want to get a clearer line of fire before launching--they'll just bounce off of it.

MAXIMUM range is 1000 meters. If you're firing at a target just over 1000 meters away and it's getting CLOSER, you might be ok. If it's a Jenner 950 meters away and running from you, don't bother.

COOL trick: Look at the range numbers next to your weapons on the lower-right part of your screen. If the number is GREEN, then whatever is in your crosshairs is within the proper range for engagement. If it's amber, then the target (not what's bracketed, but what's in the crosshairs) is outside the max recommended range, but within the maximum range. Your weapon will do some damage, but not its maximum damage. For AC2, don't expect to do any significant damage outside the green range.

PPC: MINIMUM range is 90 meters. Inside that range, you do no damage. This does NOT apply to ER PPCs. PPCs put out a LOT of heat. They're responsible for more mech overheats than any other weapon in the game. If you take on all that heat just to waste the shot on someone 40 meters away, you probably just ate all that heat for nothing.

One exception to the above: ECM targets. Want to knock the ECM out on that AS7-D-DC you just snuck up on? Regardless of minimum range, the PPC will still disable that mech's ECM for a few seconds. That'll be more than enough to lock and fire a Streak SRM2 (or four of them, if you're so equipped, for like 20-ish damage). But otherwise, don't fire a PPC at a target within 90m, except to maybe mess with your n00b teammate. > :)

UAV: Maximum range is 240 meters radius, or 300 with a certain Pilot Skill unlocked. So, if you pop your UAV 400 meters away from the enemies, it does no one any good until/unless they're dumb enough to walk toward it without shooting it down first. This means getting close. DANGEROUSLY close, if you're new. And if you want to be REALLY effective, you'll sneak up behind the enemy, pop the UAV, and sneak away again without being noticed. UAV spotting, as of the date of this post, is pretty lucrative. It might be the best module for a new mechwarrior to have when grinding XP.

Artillery, Air Strike: I don't know the radius of either off the top of my head. Regardless, when you see the red smoke you had better get away from it quickly. IF you dropped it, you had better have dropped it at LEAST 120 meters from friendlies. Ever since these were buffed to 40 damage per projectile, they've been game changers. I've seen great mid-air artillery-to-the-head kills, and EPIC airstrike team kills. Don't be THAT guy.

Eh, and so on...

Edited by TheRAbbi, 12 November 2013 - 03:52 PM.


#2 Victor Morson

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:04 PM

Why in God's name don't we have a weapons tutorial yet.

If they are wondering why only veteran MechWarriors are playing, it might have something to do with the fact we're the only ones that ever got a crash course on how most of this stuff works!

Stuff like the 90m range on the PPC isn't listed anywhere in the game. It should be. Sure there's a visual indicator if you know where to look (the numbers going dark) but how are 99% of new people supposed to know that?

Good post though, definitely helpful for the new guys!

---

My contribution: If you're playing with friends and want to more easily find the same target, press and hold Q. Q will light up every enemy on radar visually. If you look at the corner of a 'mechs lock box, there will be a letter - A, B, C, etc. That's the target ID and it will be the same for everyone.

Thus if you are playing with a friend and want to get on the same enemy, find it's call letter and then your buddy can hit Q, look for the target, and join in fighting with you.

This is used in more veteran play a lot, but even for people just starting out - this is very, very helpful for playing with allies that have voice communication with you!

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 November 2013 - 06:07 PM.


#3 Buckminster

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:19 AM

I think they are waiting for UI 2.0, because they are supposedly adding in some changes to weapon grouping. Which brings me to my tidbit...

WEAPON GROUPS
Firing everything all the time is a quick trip to Failtown. Weapons have different effective ranges and different styles (beam vs particle vs missiles) which means that they are not all useful at the same time. And firing weapons when they aren't useful does nothing but heat you up.

Each mech does come with a basic weapon grouping, but it may not be the best setup. Hit the training grounds and rearrange them, separating your weapons into groups that make sense.

e.g., my Battlemaster-1G:
Group 1 - PPC
Group 2 - 3 ML
Group 3 - 3 ML
Group 4 - 2 MG

I keep the PPC separate because it is the only long range weapon I have. And that minimum range means that I don't want that to fire when I'm up close and personal.

I separate the 6 MLs into two groups for heat. When I have a good shot and I'm running cool, I'll dump all 6. In the middle of a fight when things are chaotic and running hot, I'll alternate between the two to keep heat down.

I have the MGs on their own group so that I can fire them constantly (no heat!) while I'm brawling.

This isn't the end-all way to do it, a lot of weapon grouping is personal style. But we have 6 groups available, so use them!

Another tidbit I've heard, is to set groups 5 and 6 as your two mouse buttons. The numbers 1-4 are easy to reach from the WASD position, so leave those for the weapon groups that you need to hit with your keyboard hand.

#4 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:36 PM

SRM/SSRM: 270 meters MAX RANGE. Unlike energy and ballistic weapons, missiles do NOT do partial damage beyond their maximum range. So, if your target is 271 meters away and you fire an SRM at it, you will likely accomplish nothing for the heat you just gained.Unless, of course, you consider drawign an enemy mech's attention to you an accomplishment. That attention is usually accompanied by unfriendly fire, though, so you might want to go see a psychologist once your mech is demolished.

MOST ballistic and energy weapons do partial damage beyond their maximum range. It MAY be useful to you to take the shot if you have it. That is, unless you're firing:

LB-10X: Each of the 10 shotgun-pellet-like projectiles does only 1 point of damage. That diminishes quickly beyond the green range, and the spread of the weapon's shot group means that it's less and less likely that any of the projectiles will actually even hit. At a fraction of a single point of damage each, it's unlikely to be worth your effort (and HEAT) to take the shot until your target is in green range, and probably until it's at 300 or less.

AC2: Since the damage is so low on these anyhow, taking shots at amber range isn't going to wear down your enemy much at all. Two exceptions: the enemy mech is either close to being destroyed/disabled, or your intent is to distract or disorient the enemy pilot. AC2 fires quickly and generates a LOT of heat, so think hard before taking the amber-range shot. If you can see him, he can see you too. And he'd probably LOVE to drop an ERPPC shot through your cockpit while you're overheated, by way of thanking you for giving away your position.


Artiller and Air Strikes: They have no maximum range. You can see it, you can drop a strike on it. That simple. And they're INCREDIBLY effective since the buff. Great for interrupting base caps, scattering enemy formations, or surprising snipers and LRM boats firing from cover. They are an equalizer fo the crafty scout/recon pilot.

#5 Mercer Skye

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:01 PM

I would like to add that you don't necessarily have to group ALL of your weapons. My Battlemaster 1G for example, has the six side torso energy points loaded with medium lasers. Only two of the six however are in a selectable firing group. The other four are only utilized when I can line up a decent Alpha Strike.

So, sometimes it's prudent to take a look at what you're packing on a rig and make a more deliberate segregation of your weapons. For me, personally, it boils down to four simple categories; Primary, Secondary, Alpha, Indirect Fire.

AS'ing with a LRM or PPC on board can cause issues if targets are inside/outside of max ranges. So, you're packing six medium lasers, a PPC, and a LRM 10 (Believe the THUD Super Sport can carry that package). Doing a regular Alpha Strike may not always be prudent (targets are under 180 for LRMs, or under 90 for the PPC). So, you set up Group 1 as your PPC (Primary weapon), the Three pack MLas's on Group 2 (Secondary), and LRMs on Group 3 (Indirect Fire). Group Four is all Six MLas's (CQC 'Alpha'), Group 5 can be the PPC and all MLas's (Mid-range 'Alpha'), and then there's the Alpha Strike button for unloading all weapon systems for something at optimal range for everything.

Most people though, find it more practical to keep groupings under four, as it's easier to keep track of, which I agree with for the most part, but the important part is figuring out just exactly you NEED to be firing at certain ranges, and what is going to be better used in only certain situations (Why bother with MLas's when you can just wait an extra second or two and put more DPS down range with that PPC or use the LRMs in between PPC shots?).

It's scary just how dangerous teammates can be when they realize that they can be more effective than 'SHOOT IT ALL AT ONCE!'

#6 Fang01

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:13 PM

View PostVictor Morson, on 14 November 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Why in God's name don't we have a weapons tutorial yet.

If they are wondering why only veteran MechWarriors are playing, it might have something to do with the fact we're the only ones that ever got a crash course on how most of this stuff works!

Stuff like the 90m range on the PPC isn't listed anywhere in the game. It should be. Sure there's a visual indicator if you know where to look (the numbers going dark) but how are 99% of new people supposed to know that?

Good post though, definitely helpful for the new guys!

---

My contribution: If you're playing with friends and want to more easily find the same target, press and hold Q. Q will light up every enemy on radar visually. If you look at the corner of a 'mechs lock box, there will be a letter - A, B, C, etc. That's the target ID and it will be the same for everyone.

Thus if you are playing with a friend and want to get on the same enemy, find it's call letter and then your buddy can hit Q, look for the target, and join in fighting with you.

This is used in more veteran play a lot, but even for people just starting out - this is very, very helpful for playing with allies that have voice communication with you!


Posted Image
You were saying?

Edited by Khajja nar Jatargk, 15 November 2013 - 03:14 PM.


#7 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 01:39 PM

So, I was watching another mech's cockpit after being killed out of a match today. AS7-RS(C). 2 ERLL, 3 SRM6, AC20. Down to two or three mechs on our team, and this Atlas was FRESH--not a scratch on the thing. Mistake #1. A 100-ton bullet magnet like that needs to be LEADING the push, not sitting back in the rear and watching.

Why was that mistake #1? His long-range weaponry consisted of 2 Extended Range Large Lasers (ERLL). Those are respectable, but the AS7 is not a sniper chassis. They're arm-mounted, so they sit too low to shoot over cover. AS7 has no jump jets (JJ), so he can't pop-tart. It's nice to have that 675-meter punch, but if you're building long-range in an Atlas, you may as well drop the AC20 for a Gauss rifle--3 more rounds per ton of ammo, VERY little heat, and it's mounted about the same height as the arm lasers. But the bottom line is that the team could've used that bullet sponge up-front in the fight. It's a waste of a LOT of armor to have it sitting in the back, away from the fight, picking at enemies from across the map.

Mistake #2? Using too many alphas to hit a smaller, faster target. A Shadow Hawk of some sort started harassing him. Now, we're not talking about the Inner Sphere's best marksman in this AS7 anyhow, but try convincing this guy of it. Miss after miss after miss were recorded with the SRM6s and AC20. This was painful to watch. The SHD pilot bugged out after a few volleys were exchanged, but have no doubt that he was easily winning the back-and-forth with a 45-ton-heavier mech. WHY was this a mistake? The smaller mech had lots of cover to duck behind (upper city in River City Night map). Lasers (those ERLL, for instance) give you the ability to sweep a target, they have no flight time to consider. Lacking Stream SRMs (SSRM), lasers are your next best bet against a relatively fast-moving enemy. To quote a certain bunch of D-bags from The Karate Kid, "Sweep the leg". Keep your reticle just ahead of the legs, open fire, and sweep the laser back-and-forth across the leg(s). Even taking one out slows down the enemy pretty quickly--max movement speed with a leg out is 40 kph, and slower for some mechs. THAT is easy to hit with any weapon.

Mistake #3? He moved down into the river just below the upper cap. From here, the enemy mechs that had started making the cap run at upper could turn and fire back downhill on him, while their buddies moving across the water and the lower city could also turn for the mass fire exercise. And that's JUST what happened. WHY was this a mistake? 4 or 5 mechs quickly descended upon him. When you've got friends and you draw that kind of fire, you can at least know that your buddies are getting the opportunity to fire on those enemies without taking return fire. You MAY die, but you may ALSO have just bought your team time to reposition and to retake initiative in the fight. I've seen it quite a few times. And an AS7 doesn't just crumble at the first enemy alpha. Even with ZERO armor, those things take a while to knock down. The amount of damage their internal structure can handle is amazing. This is why they were FEARSOME in tabletop Battletech (TT). It takes forever to get through their armor, and longer yet to wear out the components underneath it. BUT, when you're solo, and it's only YOUR weapons dealing the damage back to the enemy, and every one of the enemy's mechs is faster and more nimble than your Atlas, then you're about to get smacked in the peepee. Hard. As happened to our friend.

Mistake #4? OVERHEAT. Twice, really. Ever notice the animation that goes with hitting the heat override? It's pretty obvious when eleven other mechwarriors are watching over your shoulder in game. So, in the water, apparently holding ALPHA and walking in aimless circles, he overheats his Atlas. Of course, despite the intense enemy fire, it comes back up before he's even critical. He immediately digs in with the ERLLs again, and you see that hand raise to hit the override. Heat meter? Pegged at 100% for 4-5 straight seconds, and CT internal color getting VERY dark. He went out in what might otherwise be a blaze of glory, had he not gotten into that situation by being timid in the game's most vicious mech. WHY was that a mistake? There are VERY few mechs in this game that are going to be heat-neutral, even on a map like River City (moderate temperature, lots of water to soak leg-mounted heat sinks). One or two alpha strikes won't usually get you in trouble. Even with the relatively high heat of SRM6s and ERLLs, any reasonable build of Atlas should be alright for two alphas, especially when in the water. I understand just wanting to try to do what damage you can before dying, but COME ON. This AS7 had a lot of fight left in it. Like I said, damage wasn't through the armor yet when he overheated the first time. By managing his fire, firing the SRMs and ERLLs in sequence instead of together, he might have taken one or two of those enemy mechs out with him.

Heavy sniping weapons like ERPPCs and ERLLs are fine to fire together at range. It's less likely that you'll take the return fire, and you probably have a narrower window of opportunity to put rounds on target. If you DO overheat, you'd rather do it from 700 meters away than 70.

Unless your target is covered by a lot of AMS (less likely the longer the match has gone on), you don't have to dump all your missiles into it in gobs. Chain fire hot missile launchers up close, like the SRM6s. That way, you're going to get a few more missiles off before you have to cool down. In case you haven't heard of 'ghost heat', let's just say it's better to have the weapons in a chained group, and give the trigger a break between individual firings. You'll build less heat over time this way.

Each projectile and missile weapon's projectiles have a time of flight, and it's different for every one. An AC20 round flies at a different speed than an SRM, than a Gauss slug, than a UAC5 round, etc. If you're trying to lead a target moving across your field of view, you'll have to adjust differently for whichever weapon you're firing next. As the guy in the above example was firing ERLL (zero flight time means NO target lead), AC20 (moderate flight speed, moderate flight time, means moderate lead), and SRM6 (slow flight speed, so long flight time, so LONG lead), and he was firing the weapons all together at times, there's ZERO reasonable expectation of all those different weapons hitting their targets together. That'd be a one-shotter, to be sure, especially that late in the match. But it's not going to happen with the target moving side-to-side, relative to the firer's field of view. If you're in a similar situation, and your target is circling FASTER than you can turn, start firing with the slowest time-of-flight weapon first, through to the fastest last. So, in this guy's case, SRM6s, then AC20, then ERLL. THEN reacquire that target, or find a new one. You're more likely to get your considerable firepower on-target.

One more thing: I saw this guy also take an AC20 shot at a target about 700m away. At over twice the max range of your projectile weapon, you MIGHT still do a little damage. Not MUCH, but it will at least let the enemy know you love him enough to waste ammo on him. He's sure to respond in kind. AC20 ammo comes at 7 rounds per ton. That's the heaviest ammo in the game, PERIOD. Even an LRM20 gets 9 shots per ton of ammo, Gauss gets 10. If you only get 7 rounds per ton, you had better make those rounds count when you fire. An AC2, on the other hand, gets 75 shots per ton, or nearly 11 times as many as an AC20. You can waste a couple of those. Go ahead. We won't tell on you. But with Gauss and AC20 ammo especially, you don't get many chances to tell someone you love them. Do it right. Give it to 'em RIGHT ON THE LIPS. (No mech carries more than 18 points of head armor, so even a single head shot with an AC20 on a cherry mech will cut all the armor AND have a chance to jack-up life support, cockpit, sensors, etc.) Or just aim for where the armor's already cut out.

Newblets, please heed the advice here. You'l live longer, do more damage, kill more stuff, and maybe even win some matches.

#8 Victor Morson

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostKhajja nar Jatargk, on 15 November 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:


Posted Image
You were saying?


I never noticed that, but do you really think anyone who just downloaded the game for the first day is going to be remotely aware of that little number on the weapon?

I bet you more than a few new folks have thought the games hit detection was just {Scrap} up close.

Edited by Victor Morson, 16 November 2013 - 05:47 PM.


#9 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:26 PM

To potentially satisfy the above, I recommend to new players to check out the MWO wiki. Tons of good information there, including these min and max ranges for weapons, their heat, etc. ;-)

#10 mailin

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:33 PM

This is all some really excellent advice. I'd like to add a bit more. First of all, lock targets. Locking targets is a great way to find out how damaged the enemy mech is and where the damage is. Also, even if you don't have streaks or lrms (which both require a lock in order to have the best chance of hitting for lrms and streaks won't even fire without a lock) it also locks targets so that your friendly lrm boats can help you take the bad guy out. (In addition, if you lock a target that is a hollow triangle and someone else subsequently locks and fires on that same target, you get a spotting bonus). Always try to keep one target locked at all times. This really, really helps your team's lrm carriers. Secondly, focus fire. Try to work on the same mech as your friendlies are working on. This will take out a single mech faster, which can easily mean the difference between success and failure. (Being on comms really helps in this regard, but it is not necessary.)

#11 Fang01

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostVictor Morson, on 16 November 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:


I never noticed that, but do you really think anyone who just downloaded the game for the first day is going to be remotely aware of that little number on the weapon?

I bet you more than a few new folks have thought the games hit detection was just {Scrap} up close.



I did, but then again I read every page of my Mortgage. lol





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