50 replies to this topic

[King Arthur IV]

your own line of sight with tag is the best way for maximum damage and grouping.

200-600m seems to be my sweet spot because the flight time isn't too long.

large lrm packs tend to miss faster mechs more because the grouping is not tight enough.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 30 October 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[xengk]

Victor Morson, on 29 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Think of it this way: 3 Medium Lasers that aren't going to stop anyone from rushing/murdering you, or 3 more tons of ammo that is capable of killing 2 whole more mechs? I simply cannot justify the lasers.

Having backup lasers on LRMboat is worth the weight and crit not spend on ammo.
LRMboat are defenseless within 180m and have to rely on teammate, which often isn't coming even if they see what is happening, to pull them out of the frying pan. Having pair of MLaz give you the potential to not being useless and dies packing 10 tons of unused LRM ammo.
Plus laser weapon are better at hitting lights and fast medium than LRMs.

Often I run into pure LRMboat who refuse to carry backup weapon and watch them getting papercut to death by MG Spider or ammo explosion from legging. It is hilarious when it happen to the enemy team and keyboard smashing facepalm when it was one of your own.

Koniving, on 30 October 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Disagree only on the Artemis. If you fire one launcher at a time with half a second between you'll get the same concentrated results as twin launchers with Artemis.

Smaller launcher seems to have better missile grouping as well.
Have been running around with my Lurmhawk 2D, packing 2x LRM10, 2x LRM5 with no Artemis and still often CT core targets with them.

[Victor Morson]

xengk, on 30 October 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Having backup lasers on LRMboat is worth the weight and crit not spend on ammo.
LRMboat are defenseless within 180m and have to rely on teammate, which often isn't coming even if they see what is happening, to pull them out of the frying pan. Having pair of MLaz give you the potential to not being useless and dies packing 10 tons of unused LRM ammo.

A couple of Medium Lasers never really turns the tide. If someone was damaged enough to tie to a couple medlas, your buddies could have finished them easily; and that extra 360 missiles you sac'ed for the lasers WILL bite you. Again if they'd extend the ammo-per-ton then I think you could justify it more.

Abivard, on 30 October 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Awesome and centurions have to be the two worst mechs of the feasible LRM mechs. which is better between the two is rather Moot, as any other LRM mech is far better.

Centurions are the ideal LRM platform, or were - the Shadow Hawk may take the prize now. It's launcher racks are big enough to sport two salvos of 15s instantly, and it's layout means you can strip all the arms. It's also fast enough to properly position itself.

Edited by Victor Morson, 30 October 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[King Arthur IV]

i have to agree with alot of people here that med lasers are not worth their weight and heat on lrm boats with over 40lrms.

most of the time you are out of range to fire meds and even if you are in range, you are more efficient in dealing sustainable damage without using your lasers.

if your being harassed by a light.... you should be with your team and make it apparent that you need a little help. most lights wont come close to you if your with your team anyway.

with good positioning, you will do more damage with more ammo and a tag then you would with some med lasers. (providing you are invested heavily into lrms)

[Johnny Reb]

Bront, on 27 October 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Some LRMing tips:

1) Mount LRM launchers your mech can effectively fire. Mounting them with inadequate tubes means you get additional volleys, and effecitvely a longer cooldown, as your weapon cooldown doesn't start till the final volley is fired. (Example - The Stalker 3F has 10 tube racks in the arms and 6 tube racks in the torso. Mounting an LRM20 would result in either 2 volleys of 10, or 3 volleys of 6 followed by 1 volley of 2)

While this is true. if you are running big lrms on chain fire, I think it has a very different application. Lets take my fave lrm boat:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6c7b8965eed1a28
2 lrm 20 in the chest
1 lrm 15 in the arm
If fired at once, not only do I get a ghost penalty but they fire:
20+10+10, then 10+5 for 2 salvos, first 40 second 15.
If I chain fire then I have no ghost heat and my salvos go like this
20, then 10, then 10, then 10 then 5 so 4 volleys however: as the other 2 launchers (with missles to still launch) still do their second fire, after the first INDEPENDENT of the other launcher firing. So the third volley is actually alot closer to the first 20, followed with the single 5.
So in how I perceive the chain-fire is 20, 10, 20 ,5 with no ghost as if fired at once would give 40, 15 with the ghost heat.
Also, with chain-fire this cycle is done before my first lrm 20 is ready to fire again regardless. So much more efficient minus intial damage which is negligible if ghost heat is included since I can send more missiles before cool shot or stopping.

[Magna Canus]

Victor Morson, on 30 October 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

This goes back to what I was saying about driving medium LRM boats over assaults. You may lack back up guns, but your defense is.. your team, and your speed. Even in a pug I often turn tail and move straight back into the main group if I get attacked, but make it back with most of my armor intact - the person chasing generally either breaks off (the smart thing) or charges head first into a firing line. The bottom line is that it's better to, in a team game like this, focus on your role entirely - in particular when it's a role that takes so much out of you. That 3 tons spent on ML that could have been spent on more LRMs or 3 whole more tons of ammo is a huge deal that means literally hundreds of points of damage.

I still have to disagree with that idea. You are taking a lot of chances here. Unless you are with a full 12 you cant expect to get real cover in a PUG all the time. Also, when running with a 4 in a PUG and your other team mates are otherwise engaged or dead you loose their support. Loose a leg and you loose your speed. Get pinned down and you loose the ability to escape.

Unfortunately, as we all know and which is the reason why threads like this exist, it is difficult to get good, consisttant damage from LRMs all the time. What use are my 3 extra tons of ammo that COULD cause hundreds in damage when I meet an enemy with too many AMS, good use of cover/ECM, etc. ? I have had enough games where LRMs were useless no matter what I did. I dont know how fast you go with that Centurion, but my C1 had an XL300 engine and went 82.2 AND has JJs which the cent does not. In several games that level of speed and manoeverability made no difference, BUT those MLs did.

Role warfare should be the central part of any build, but you cant escape using a varied load-out unless you are willing to accept the fact that in some situations you will be a handicap to your team. It's just like with evolution, those that over specialize or over generalize wind up extinct while those that specialize but also retain the aptitude for generalization tend to thrive.

[Vimeous]

Abivard, on 30 October 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Awesome and centurions have to be the two worst mechs of the feasible LRM mechs. which is better between the two is rather Moot, as any other LRM mech is far better.

I've been following this thread with interest and I'll be going back to my Trebs to revisit medium boats as a result.
However, as has been discussed in depth elsewhere, the Awesome 8R remains one of the most underrated lrm boats on the battlefield.

Personally I find backup weaponry desirable in a boat but it must come with manouverability. Were I to group drop that might change. It could be considered a safety blanket but it's got me enough end-game kills for it to be a worthwhile choice rather that something to be dismissed out of hand.

Edited by Vimeous, 31 October 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[xengk]

Victor Morson, on 30 October 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

A couple of Medium Lasers never really turns the tide. If someone was damaged enough to tie to a couple medlas, your buddies could have finished them easily; and that extra 360 missiles you sac'ed for the lasers WILL bite you. Again if they'd extend the ammo-per-ton then I think you could justify it more.

Most likely down to different play style.
I only fire on targets that Im confident to hit instead of doing missile bukakke on any target that light up.

Going full LRM only work if you drop in group and in constant communication.
I play mostly PUG and often you are on your own to defend yourself until someone decide to help you out. So, all of my PUG LRMboat are front line mechs that move together with the blob. Your chance of getting assistance from teammate increase when you are both within sight AND firing range. Back roll LRMboat are out of sight, out of mind and dies a lonely death.

When dropping as a group, I can even afford to run 200 rating engine and fill to the brim with ammo, as long as I have a dedicated escort and spotter.

I currently have 2 active LRMboat; AWR 8R and SHD 2D2.

[StarGeezer]

Missile boats are seeing something of a minor renaissance, if last night's matches were any indication. Both sides were raining rockets down like crazy. I may have missed "LURM-ageddon", but this was pretty close to it.

[Magna Canus]

StarGeezer, on 01 November 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Missile boats are seeing something of a minor renaissance, if last night's matches were any indication. Both sides were raining rockets down like crazy. I may have missed "LURM-ageddon", but this was pretty close to it.

Every once in a while you get a match like that, usually when a group of people get the idea that LRMs would be fun if the whole 4 man runs them. In such cases they can be really fun. I remember last week my buddies and I ran a 4 man with 2xBLR-1S, an Atlas with LRM 20, and a Stalker LRM boat. Was pretty fun.

[Marvyra]

I'm actually running a Stalker-3F LRM boat atm with 2 LRM15 + Artemis and 6 Medium Lasers. It's been working out better than I expected!

So I can defend myself AND fire at people from afar. Funny enough, I've killed more with my lasers than my LRMs, they give a hella lot of assists though. Reeling in that cash!

Got enough heatsinks to fire all 6 lasers twice, I just love it~

I just need to stop focusing so much on firing missiles and follow my group cuz I usually end up getting backstabbed by a lance. XDDD