34 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 27 October 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Does this just come from the fact that the CN9's loadout is asymmetrical? What about all those highly successful HBK builds that have that massive hunch? You didn't answer the point about leaving a weapon out for no reason other than 'I might lose it and I'm scared '

I answered the point entirely. The arms on a Centurion are very easy to hit and draw massive amounts of fire, and thus are huge liabilities and any firepower going in them will be the prime target of enemy players and teams. Once they've blown that off, you're likely to be ignored for more dangerous targets.

Again, like I stated, arm mounted guns work fine on some 'mechs but on the Centurion it's just it is around 90% of your firepower from a single location that's easy to hit. If you have backup weapons (missiles/etc) you'll be going too slow, and it will make it a huge liability for a whole other set of reasons.

Also there are no highly successful Hunchback builds. There are some that can work in PUGs but you never see organized teams fielding Hunchbacks unless they are training cadets. The Hunch is a huge problem (If we were using a Hunchback, it'd be the 4SP with it's two smaller hunches) because it lets you hit the front armor from the rear arc. But why the Hunchback is really dead is the fact it's engine cap is massively restrictive, far more than any other new medium.

Autobot9000, on 27 October 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

You can still torso twist Victor TrashTalkChamp and hence its not simply your decision if you can target fire that arm all the time. Also it seems like your next advice would be to not use the AC20 in your hunchback or your Atlas DDC, because that's what people target for. How silly. But I guess talking to such a troll as you present yourself here, arguments aren't what I am gonna waste my time with. Especially since you're already starting bragging again LOL How childish are you seriously?

This isn't trash talk. Like I explained, there are people/units that could take defang you even faster. And yes, I would advise against an AC/20 Hunchback because the Hunch is so poorly designed.

The AC/20 on the Atlas, by comparison, is mounted in a heavily armored body spot flanked by the arms. If you lose the arms on an Atlas, you're losing (assuming it's a DDC) a whopping one energy weapon. Thus you won't even want to bother with Atlas arms and yes, you might try to blow off the AC/20, but destroying a side torso on an assault 'mech is far harder than blasting a the massive arms off a Cent. It is not a comparable situation.

Also again, a Cent running ballistics in the arm is putting MOST of it's firepower in a single spot - the YLW is an awful 'mech for that reason. If it loses it's right arm, it's not like an Atlas or Cataphract losing it's arm - it's the vast majority of the 'mechs firepower. This is why good players will just blow it off without hesitation.

It's the same weakness that makes the Streak Cat entirely unpopular. You can just shred it's guns and ignore it.

luxebo, on 27 October 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Victor does have a point in competitive play, but I'm guessing since the OP placed this in the new players section, this means that he wants an idea on what Cents for Pugging. I think they all work fine as long as you torso twist. You should use the Cent A©, as that one is a good mech for brawling. And you have the Yen-lo, another solid mech. Up to you on whether you like chasing lights or mounting multiple ballistics (that means Cent D), or mounting energy instead of ballistics (Cent 9AL).

I'd agree except every time I'm grinding cash in a pug match and a YLW tries to engage me, I blow off it's arm and go back to fighting what I was. Again, this isn't bragging - every single serious pilot is going to have the same reaction. It's just too easy to completely neuter it.

When a Cent 9A shows up on my side, however, that's when I get more than a little nervous. That thing is not going down easy.

Ben Brabu, on 27 October 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

oh ok. well I was just getting to where I got about 1000 EXP with the YLW every match and now I am having a hard time getting used to the CN9-A[C].

Yeah, not really competitive yet. Just PUG games right now. I figured I would grind this mech since I have such a big jump on it anyway after I bought the YLW with the sale last week.

And important tip since you are new (that is likely making you sour on the Cent 9A in fact) is make sure you open your missile bay doors. The key by default is /.

Effectively when they are closed you get a slight armor bonus, but your missiles will have a second+ delay to actually fire from when you hit the trigger that makes it unacceptable to aim with. If you flip them open, they fire the second you hit the button.

Just a tip!

[Arnold J Rimmer]

I still disagree on the proportion of firepower lost with the arm, no matter the variant, but I'll concede the rest. /salute to you, sir!

[Orangeug1ad]

Victor Morson, on 27 October 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

When a Cent 9A shows up on my side, however, that's when I get more than a little nervous. That thing is not going down easy.


And important tip since you are new (that is likely making you sour on the Cent 9A in fact) is make sure you open your missile bay doors. The key by default is /.

Effectively when they are closed you get a slight armor bonus, but your missiles will have a second+ delay to actually fire from when you hit the trigger that makes it unacceptable to aim with. If you flip them open, they fire the second you hit the button.

Just a tip!

That's it. I didn't know I had doors to open. Thanks I'll try this later today.

[John MatriX82]

For me it's A > AL > YLW=CN9-D. I personally dislike the D, got rid of it asap, the YLW.. I've never even played with it in the CB, AC20+2ML it's basically the only way to go, it's good don't get me wrong, but I'd like a little bit more of flexibility from an hero mech, since you've to spend a lot of time in one.

So to the OP, I'd put yourself forward the AL.

Edited by John MatriX82, 28 October 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[luxebo]

Definitely a good point Victor, but since Pugs aren't the smartest in the world (I literally had my hunch taken out like 5 times after mastering all my Hunchies), you could put stuff in the arms, but I suggest besides the YLW, you should limit firepower on the arm (like Cent D maybe only MGs, and Cent AL only small/med lasers or something similar.) Hunchbacks are nice and well-rounded for battle, but they are not as specialized or optimal as other mechs.

Literally though, I see all the time only these handful of mechs in so-called competitive play: Lights with ECM (esp Raven 3L), Jenner D & F, Cent A, Cataphract 3D & IIya, Highlanders, and Atlas DDC. I understand some mechs were built better than others, but it really boils down to these few roles every time someone posts advice on mechs for competitive play: ECM, skirmishing scouts, zombies, poptarts, and brawling leaders and that's it. No non skirmish scouts (spider, locust, commando), no fire-support, no K2 or Jagers even for sniping, no pure brawlers, etc. I don't know because I play casually, but this is pretty much what I hear from everyone that plays competitively.

[Victor Morson]

luxebo, on 28 October 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Definitely a good point Victor, but since Pugs aren't the smartest in the world (I literally had my hunch taken out like 5 times after mastering all my Hunchies), you could put stuff in the arms, but I suggest besides the YLW, you should limit firepower on the arm (like Cent D maybe only MGs, and Cent AL only small/med lasers or something similar.) Hunchbacks are nice and well-rounded for battle, but they are not as specialized or optimal as other mechs.

Hunchbacks would be alright if they'd uncap the engine. The basic one with the Hunch is awful, but the 4SP is fairly small and has a good hard point layout. It'd be a great 'mech if it wasn't so painfully slow. As for the MGs in the arms - the problem there is you can only fit one/two of them, and then you have to armor/ammo the location, and in the process lose the slots for Ferro/Endo to zombie, or just plain take more important things out of the 'mech. So it's really not very effective.

I definitely do make an exception for the AL like you're saying, with some light firepower in the arm, because it's not crippling if it's lost. I run the AL with 4 lasers and 2 SRM6s pretty often, and losing 2 ML / SPL isn't game-ending when the arm goes. So that definitely gets a pass.

luxebo, on 28 October 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Literally though, I see all the time only these handful of mechs in so-called competitive play: Lights with ECM (esp Raven 3L), Jenner D & F, Cent A, Cataphract 3D & IIya, Highlanders, and Atlas DDC. I understand some mechs were built better than others, but it really boils down to these few roles every time someone posts advice on mechs for competitive play: ECM, skirmishing scouts, zombies, poptarts, and brawling leaders and that's it. No non skirmish scouts (spider, locust, commando), no fire-support, no K2 or Jagers even for sniping, no pure brawlers, etc. I don't know because I play casually, but this is pretty much what I hear from everyone that plays competitively.

Things have changed up quite a bit since they finally fixed PPCs, so you're seeing far more diversity in some things. K2s and Jagers show up now as either hill humpers or AC/20 smashers, SRMs are useful again, etc. Right now the current meta favors heavily AC/20 & AC/5. So your info isn't inaccurate, it's just from a few months back.

You are right about no locusts/commandos though. Sometimes a Spider will pop up (in particular in Conquest leagues) because they're so ridiculously hard to kill and we want light ECM, but in general, Jenner is the king. The Shadow Hawk is flat out awesome though and is a really top-tier competitive medium, so between that and the Cent... it gets very hard to justify the others, unfortunately. (There's not much reason to take a Hunchback over a Shadow Hawk aside from the 5 tons difference; in that case, a Centurion is better every time.)

Edited by Victor Morson, 28 October 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[luxebo]

Victor Morson, on 28 October 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Hunchbacks would be alright if they'd uncap the engine. The basic one with the Hunch is awful, but the 4SP is fairly small and has a good hard point layout. It'd be a great 'mech if it wasn't so painfully slow. As for the MGs in the arms - the problem there is you can only fit one/two of them, and then you have to armor/ammo the location, and in the process lose the slots for Ferro/Endo to zombie, or just plain take more important things out of the 'mech. So it's really not very effective.

I definitely do make an exception for the AL like you're saying, with some light firepower in the arm, because it's not crippling if it's lost. I run the AL with 4 lasers and 2 SRM6s pretty often, and losing 2 ML / SPL isn't game-ending when the arm goes. So that definitely gets a pass.



Things have changed up quite a bit since they finally fixed PPCs, so you're seeing far more diversity in some things. K2s and Jagers show up now as either hill humpers or AC/20 smashers, SRMs are useful again, etc. Right now the current meta favors heavily AC/20 & AC/5. So your info isn't inaccurate, it's just from a few months back.

You are right about no locusts/commandos though. Sometimes a Spider will pop up (in particular in Conquest leagues) because they're so ridiculously hard to kill and we want light ECM, but in general, Jenner is the king. The Shadow Hawk is flat out awesome though and is a really top-tier competitive medium, so between that and the Cent... it gets very hard to justify the others, unfortunately. (There's not much reason to take a Hunchback over a Shadow Hawk aside from the 5 tons difference; in that case, a Centurion is better every time.)

I agree with the hunchie post, that thing needs to be faster. I think that my second paragraph was sorta screwed up, there are some more new mechs now being played with the meta change. I think that the mech tier list or the guide that you placed before (even 80 bits guide); I wish they were updated. Thanks for your response victor.

[Orangeug1ad]

So if I want to go competitive MED next after Cent grind, I go Shadow hawk or BlackJack?

Also, I should lean toward Al instead of D for third Cent?

Dang edit again, is there anything I can do to make the CN9-A[C] better? Or just keep it stock?

Edited by Ben Brabu, 28 October 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

SHD has a head-mounted missile hardpoint for zombie options, but the BJ is a far smaller target. Overall, the SHD is a more versatilte machine IMO.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Ben Brabu, on 28 October 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

So if I want to go competitive MED next after Cent grind, I go Shadow hawk or BlackJack?

I've seen both piloted well.

I haven't tried any Blackjacks yet, and the ShadowHawks can make use of missiles.

Is there anything in particular you are looking for?

Ben Brabu, on 28 October 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Also, I should lean toward Al instead of D for third Cent?

I liked the AL, I used it for a while, it's a fine mech.


The D I've seen used with a large XL engine as a light hunter so that's an option, I haven't used it myself.

Edited by Praetor Shepard, 28 October 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Orangeug1ad]

I tend to do best or have only tried Brawler / Assault Support.

Edited by Ben Brabu, 28 October 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[luxebo]

Since you are a founder and you have Project Phoenix, you should play with the mechs you own as well. If I were you on the Cents, I'll give both a good go. I like mastering the entire line just for fun unless the mech is absolutely terrible (I can't really shout at any right now, but there are bound to be some useless mechs somewhere.) CN9-AL or CN9-D depends on whether you like light hunting/ballistics over energy or not. And once again since you have both Founders and Project Phoenix, you should just go for whatever you have already (Shadow Hawks, Thunderbolts, Locusts, whatever Founders mech you got.) CN9-A(C) should be either kept stock if you like it already or remove med pulses for regular meds and srm4s with srm6s. Even more boom and zombie.

[Orangeug1ad]

luxebo, on 28 October 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Since you are a founder and you have Project Phoenix, you should play with the mechs you own as well. If I were you on the Cents, I'll give both a good go. I like mastering the entire line just for fun unless the mech is absolutely terrible (I can't really shout at any right now, but there are bound to be some useless mechs somewhere.) CN9-AL or CN9-D depends on whether you like light hunting/ballistics over energy or not. And once again since you have both Founders and Project Phoenix, you should just go for whatever you have already (Shadow Hawks, Thunderbolts, Locusts, whatever Founders mech you got.) CN9-A© should be either kept stock if you like it already or remove med pulses for regular meds and srm4s with srm6s. Even more boom and zombie.

LOL, good idea. Just buy one or two more cents and play SHDs and BLRs for a while.

[Victor Morson]

Ben Brabu, on 28 October 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

So if I want to go competitive MED next after Cent grind, I go Shadow hawk or BlackJack?

Also, I should lean toward Al instead of D for third Cent?

Dang edit again, is there anything I can do to make the CN9-A[C] better? Or just keep it stock?

Shadow Hawk. No question. Do not buy a Blackjack - they're not the worst thing out there but my God, the Shadow Hawk is the absolute top tier medium in a competitive game right now. You still have a place for Cents to a degree, but everything else is all Shadow Hawk.

It's got variants to do Streak light-hunters (While it has one less launcher, it's a FAR better mech than the Kintaro), it's got variants that can snipe, and it can be configured to brawl. It can pop tart and it can hill hump. It's a win-win 'mech with a great layout (a high mounted torso ballistic and split slots) and functionality.

Try running one with either 4 Streaks and some lasers for light hunting (A very large XL) or the more popular model, 2x AC5 1x PPC. It's a brutal damage dealer that can jump snipe and also brawl!

EDIT: Also, go Centurion D. The 9A and 9D are the best in most situations; the AL is almost never used (the anti-light model only really is useful in specific low tonnage league drops). The 9D on the other hand sees frequent use thanks to it's speed (allowing it to, if necessary, keep up with Jenners) while the 9A is the zombie powerhouse I've been gushing over.

I do agree with the above poster though: Try to buy 3 Cents before moving to the Shadow Hawk, so you can elite them while your work on the SH.

Ben Brabu, on 28 October 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I tend to do best or have only tried Brawler / Assault Support.

An AC/5 Shadow Hawk would be an ideal way to try a more mid-range/sniper game because it's very flexible and will let you ease yourself out to further ranges. Just remember the PPC won't work inside of minimum range, so switch to just AC/5s if something crowds you!

Edited by Victor Morson, 28 October 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Orangeug1ad]

Thanks for all the help people. Good tips here. I will buy a Cent D tonight and I'll have 3 Cents to Master. YLW has XP to be master, just have to unlock it with the other 2. And then I will go Shadow Hawk.

Thanks for all the insight every one provided.