49 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

I agree that a gauss with a charge should have a chance at exploding if crit'd, however, a gauss with no ammo won't have a charge, you DO NOT CHARGE YOUR GAUSS UNTIL IT RELOADS NOW, RIIIIIIGHT??!?!?!!

So, even ignoring the fact that a gauss with ammo available, and reloaded, can still blow up when not charged (we'll let that one slide, for now), a gauss that can't be charged, because it can't be reloaded should NEVER explode!

Obviously this is a bug.

And yeah, I'm submitting the email to MWO Support too.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 24 October 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[Deathlike]

The sad fact is that the Gauss Rifle is meant to explode, not the ammo. The absence of ammo doesn't make the gun less "explody".

[Dimento Graven]

Deathlike, on 24 October 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

The sad fact is that the Gauss Rifle is meant to explode, not the ammo. The absence of ammo doesn't make the gun less "explody".

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You're basically saying they make gauss rifles out of sticks of dynamite...

And it's not the AMMO that makes them explode, it's the CHARGED high tension transformers and super high capacity capacitors that explode, so if the transformers and capacitors aren't charged (due to not needing to fire because "...it cain't cause they ain't gots no mo ammo..."), then there should be no explosion.

I'll work on the, "Hey I ain't charged this loaded gauss yet, why's it blowin' up?" issue later.

THIS issue is even more important than that because the later issue has some extremely small modicum of available argument to it.

The former though, does not, it's just a stupid bug that occurred due to a small oversight.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 24 October 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[Ironwithin]

Oversight <> bug.
This would make a good feature suggestion, though. unloaded and uncharged gausses 'sploding is a bit "unrealistic". It does give this no-heat,extreme range and pinpoint accuracy weapon a nice weakness though, apart from being heavy as a house.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Already had an ammo explosion with a pure Laser Atlas, so buggy!

[1Sascha]

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The sad fact is that the Gauss Rifle is meant to explode, not the ammo. The absence of ammo doesn't make the gun less "explody".

Yup.. that's how it works according to BT-rules, I guess.

Which *kinda* makes sense, since the Gauss is supposed to fire solid metal slugs. So there's no chemical propellant involved that could explode.

Quote from Sarna:

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Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.

So, basically, the weapon still behaves as intended by BT-rules. However: What screws things up is the nerf of the firing mechanics. Since now the weapon is charged up before every shot, it should only explode when charged.

Meaning the chance of a Gauss-explosion should be very slim indeed - only during those, err.. 0.75 (?) seconds when the light turns and stays green should the MWONL-Gauss be susceptible to explosions. Before the firing-mechanics-nerf, the gun was charged up all the time (hence your ability to simply click for a shot).

Maybe they should at least change the behaviour of an empty Gauss. Meaning: Once the ammo is spent, the rifle will have no tendency to explode. I mean: Why would it be charged up if there weren't any ammo left?


This illustrates another point quite nicely BTW: The uselessness of the constant tinkering and tweaking. You tweak on one end and create logic holes/balancing issues/all sorts of problems on 2 other ends. Why can't we just have the established rules and values of BT without those constant changes, nerfs and buffs? If the people whine: Let them. Other players will adapt to the rules and learn to live with them.


S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 25 October 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[Deathlike]

Dimento Graven, on 24 October 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You're basically saying they make gauss rifles out of sticks of dynamite...

And it's not the AMMO that makes them explode, it's the CHARGED high tension transformers and super high capacity capacitors that explode, so if the transformers and capacitors aren't charged (due to not needing to fire because "...it cain't cause they ain't gots no mo ammo..."), then there should be no explosion.

I'll work on the, "Hey I ain't charged this loaded gauss yet, why's it blowin' up?" issue later.

THIS issue is even more important than that because the later issue has some extremely small modicum of available argument to it.

The former though, does not, it's just a stupid bug that occurred due to a small oversight.

I'm not going to argue against the "obviously flawed logic" of the design. You should be able to dump the Gauss Rifle like the suggestions to "dump ammo" when you have no use for it anymore. It's up to PGI to address it (like, fixing the "Ammo Explosion" message for the Gauss Rifle while they're at it).

[1Sascha]

Deathlike, on 25 October 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

I'm not going to argue against the "obviously flawed logic" of the design. You should be able to dump the Gauss Rifle like the suggestions to "dump ammo" when you have no use for it anymore. It's up to PGI to address it (like, fixing the "Ammo Explosion" message for the Gauss Rifle while they're at it).

Would also be nice to be able to select which ammo-location to use up first. Read: I want to be able to tell my Mech/gun to consume that ammo first which is stored anywhere but the legs.

S.

[Ey3cD34Dppl]

The solution would be pretty simple. Just get rid of the "reload" time and add it to the "charge" time. Charging should start at a mouse click and the 2nd mouseclick should fire the gun.

This would mean, that the "explosion" would be logical and it would keep the character of a sniper weapon.

You could even increase the reload/charge time in order to lower macro-induced-brawl-capabilities.

Just my 2 cents

[kravkalash]

LiGhtning90, on 25 October 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

Already had an ammo explosion with a pure Laser Atlas, so buggy!

Sure you didn't have an AMS isntalled? They use ammo, too.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I kind of agree that Gauss Rifles should be powered-down when they have no ammo, and thus eliminate the risk of an explosion; this is akin to the idea that running out of AutoCannon ammo eliminates the risk of explosion.

But.. this is more like a Feature Suggestion than a bug report or a Patch-related feedback concept... it would be a new idea to integrate into the game.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 25 October 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[WM Wraith]

Deathlike, on 24 October 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

The sad fact is that the Gauss Rifle is meant to explode, not the ammo. The absence of ammo doesn't make the gun less "explody".

The gun should only be "explody" during the time the silly "chargy up" cycle is engaged that PGI has put in to gimp the weapon. When it is sitting "un chargied up" - meaning sitting idle - it is simply a lump of metal. Once it has fired all ammo and doing nothing but constantly sitting cold, idle and being a lump of metal, there is none of the "explody" parts still keeping the reason it is "explody" causing it to still be "explody"

In this case, we have strayed the mechanics of the TT gauss to what PGI has made them with the charge mechanics, so it makes sense that they should logically complete the transition to having the weapon only explode during the time it is charged. In the TT game, the weapon sits in a charged ready to fire state constantly - so if hit, it explodes. Now in MWO post PGI change of late, we have a charge time to fire - and and an inert time. Charge time goes "boomy" and non charge time goes "plink"

Technical terms are copyrighted above with the exception of the previously used "explody"

Edited by CyBerWraith, 25 October 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Ironwithin, on 24 October 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Oversight &lt;&gt; bug.
This would make a good feature suggestion, though. unloaded and uncharged gausses 'sploding is a bit &quot;unrealistic&quot;. It does give this no-heat,extreme range and pinpoint accuracy weapon a nice weakness though, apart from being heavy as a house.

The oversight itself results in the bug.

I do software dev for a living son, perhaps I've 'grown up' with a higher standard, but pretty much anything that results in an 'unexpected response' is classified as a bug.

Whether or not it ever gets fixed... That's a whole other 3 day email argument...

[Dimento Graven]

Prosperity Park, on 25 October 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

I kind of agree that Gauss Rifles should be powered-down when they have no ammo, and thus eliminate the risk of an explosion; this is akin to the idea that running out of AutoCannon ammo eliminates the risk of explosion.
...

Excellent, EXCELLENT point!!!

EVERY OTHER weapon is non 'explody' when it runs out of ammo, in this case the gauss should NOT have the additional difference of ALWAYS being 'explody'...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 25 October 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[Modo44]

You should be able to permanently switch the Gauss Rifle off, just as you should be able to safely cook off/eject ammo to prevent explosions.

[Ironwithin]

Oookay ...
First up: don't "son" me please.
Second: Implying my standards are low or you are in any way, shape or form "better" than me or anyone else is offensive, no matter the situation or argument.

With that out of the way now, the gauss exploding is not unexpected behaviour, it is also not a bug. It is working as intended. The oversight was they didn't stop to think that this intended behaviour made no sense at all when seen from a "realistic" point of view. Then again, we're sitting infront of metal and plastic boxes pretending to be stomping around in giant robots so how did reality get mixed up in this ?

Done with your little pseudo-bug-troll-threads now, have a good day and enjoy the game.

[Dimento Graven]

Ironwithin, on 25 October 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Oookay ...
First up: don't &quot;son&quot; me please.

I'm old, it's privilege you earn through not dying early. Don't worry, you'll get there...

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Second: Implying my standards are low or you are in any way, shape or form &quot;better&quot; than me or anyone else is offensive, no matter the situation or argument.

Except when statements are made that at the very least imply a low standard. You can dress it up with any euphemism you want:

Unexpected response
Undocumented feature
Self-evolving code design
Code Cancer

They all equal one thing: A set of code not working as intended. Not working as intended = 'bug', no ifs, ands, or buts.

Quote

With that out of the way now, the gauss exploding is not unexpected behaviour, it is also not a bug. It is working as intended. The oversight was they didn't stop to think that this intended behaviour made no sense at all when seen from a "realistic" point of view. Then again, we're sitting infront of metal and plastic boxes pretending to be stomping around in giant robots so how did reality get mixed up in this ?

Done with your little pseudo-bug-troll-threads now, have a good day and enjoy the game.

So, what you're saying is the bug is that EVERY OTHER weapon that runs out of ammo should ALSO explode? If that were the case, maybe it isn't a bug, but we have a situation here where the weapon explosion feature of the gauss is unintentionally being allowed to carry itself beyond the point of weapon functionality.

Not only is this a bug, it's a balance issue.

Again, I am unaware of any other weapon that explodes when its ammo is depleted (barring the one statement earlier, VIDS or didn't happen), so having a weapon which while it does enjoy a few features that other weapons don't have, has many other balancing factors:

1. Fragile and 'explody' when charged.
2. High weight
3. High crit slot requirement
4. Low ammo per ton
5. Long reload time
6. Extra charge time. (the reload time was NOT reduced so effective DPS is reduced)
7. Only stays charged for a short time and must be recharged if not fired while charged.
8. Can't be 'natively' chain fired (you can do so with scripts)

It adds up to being an unnecessary 'undocumented feature' and it should be removed.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 25 October 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Krivvan]

If you want some kind of a justification then the capacitors stay charged, even when it isn't loading. The coils are what's charging up whenever you fire.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 25 October 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

If you want some kind of a justification then the capacitors stay charged, even when it isn't loading. The coils are what's charging up whenever you fire.

No other weapon has to worry about exploding when out of ammo.

It's a bug, and a balance issue.

[WM Wraith]

Dimento Graven, on 25 October 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

No other weapon has to worry about exploding when out of ammo.

It's a bug, and a balance issue.

I am betting rather than thinking it through and seeing the logic that a gauss rifle should not explode when not charged, PGI most likely will respond "working as intended"