34 replies to this topic

[_Comrade_]

Then why is there a unit called the 22nd smoke jaguar freeborn cluster that fought on luthen?

[_Comrade_]

Of course he doesn't answer me when I prove him wrong

[CyclonerM]

Well, it would be nice if you could provide us the source of this information, as i do not personally recall any freeborn Cluster on Luthien

But it has been quite some time since i read about the that battle..

[CoffiNail]

Someone, somewhere messed up. Smoke Jaguar DO NOT use freeborn, they are one of the hardest on freeborn.

[CyclonerM]

Well there is indeed a 22th Freeborn Cluster but it is a second-line unit.

But something is odd. How can an Elemental be freeborn? But it has an Elemental Trinary

[Jaroth Corbett]

Grimwill, on 19 June 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Then why is there a unit called the 22nd smoke jaguar freeborn cluster that fought on luthen?

Grimwill, on 19 June 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Of course he doesn't answer me when I prove him wrong

Dude I am not watching the forums all the time. I do other things. I have a life.

The novel I quoted is written in a time AFTER the invasion.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 19 June 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[_Comrade_]

http://www.sarna.net...eebirth_Cluster

[_Comrade_]

Also the battle of luthien

http://www.sarna.net...ttle_of_Luthien

[RedShirtPhenom]

Grimwill, on 19 June 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Of course he doesn't answer me when I prove him wrong

It is easy to explain actually, you notice the little line at the bottom of the Sarna entry

Sarna.Net said:

At least some, if not all, of the 22nd Freebirth surrendered on Luthien. The Cluster is not mentioned after the battle possibly because its actions had rendered it Dezgra it was struck from the Touman.

Taken together with the Quotes form "Freebirth" this show that you are, in fact, both right. At the time of the Luthien invasion there was a Freebirth Cluster - in second line 'mechs if their commander's Shadowhawk IIC is any indication - that eventually surrendered when faced with superior enemy forces; was removed from the Touman, and subsequently "forgotten" by the incredibly hidebound (and starchy) Smoke Kitties.

Following on from that, the Jags got routed from Tukayyid in a matter of days, while Aiden Pryde (not really freeborn but a helluva story) and Phelan Ward (definite freeborn there) gained glory and, in the case of Clan Wolf, victory.

The conclusion to my ramblings is that by the time the book Freebirth happened (3058-59) the Jags had plenty of reasons to hate Freeborn warriors, leading to Howell saying what he did to Horse. Your both right.

Edited by Sophistokated, 19 June 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Grimwill, on 19 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...eebirth_Cluster

Grimwill, on 19 June 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Also the battle of luthien

http://www.sarna.net...ttle_of_Luthien

I wipe my ass with Sarna so I am not going to even look at that. There is however a scenario pack dedicated to Luthien. I will check it out & get back to you. Relax man. I never clam up. If someone is wrong, I say they are wrong & if they are right, I say they are right.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 19 June 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[CoffiNail]

It is actually in Luthien scenario. I looked, but it is also an older publication. So the 'newer' source would be more accurate. I see CSJ rather hating freeborn. It goes against their smug superior attitude. Hehe

[Jaroth Corbett]

Sophistokated, you are spot on. I tip my hat to you sir.

Grimwill it would appear that both of us are right.

At the time of the invasion, according to the Luthien scenairo pack, there was a 22nd Smoke Jaguar Freebirth Cluster.



The events in the novel Freebirth, take place in 3058 which would concur with what Sophistokated said.

[_Comrade_]

Thanks, sorry if my post sounded harsh

[Jaroth Corbett]

All is forgiven.

[Anvil Dragon]

Still, although a problem for regular play, I see a possible Clan vs IS tourney concept that would be worth working on.