70 replies to this topic

[Peiper]

I think people are so sick and bored of the map (or can't see {Scrap} on the night version) that they cap just to get it over with and move onto a more fun map. Yes, you can defend your cap, too, sure. I've played 5000+ matches now, and I'm sure several hundred were on that god-forsaken map. When I hop onto River City night, I just want to quit the game or at least just run out in the water and explode. It's only out of respect for the other players that I play the map; but I really hate it. (I don't mean, I don't LIKE it. I do very much HATE River City Night. My eyes bleed after a couple minutes...)

[Lykaon]

MadCat02, on 31 October 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Well last of my 20 games on river city ended in caprace. Its getting really annoying

Team at spaceship goes upper because its safer......

Team at docks goes lower because its safer.......

Nobody wants to turn around because they want to stick with the team and not die .


"Yes we can all can see eachother walking on river city"

Isn't that why people go in opposite direction because they don't want to die . You can't make all random players stay and defend . It will split the team in half .
.
The core of the game should be combat and and not 14.00 minute win by cap .

Stop being a sheepy puggie.

You do not always have to turn right.

You do not always have to "stick together".

If a team can not defend a base on a map as tiny as River City they are inept.

Seriously folks this map allows for exchanging fire from each others bases.You literally do not need to leave base to play the ever so popular puggie past time of hidey peeky.

I keep seeing posts like this from players who can not wrap their heads around the objectives.

ONE: Capture enemy base.
TWO: Destroy enemy mechs.

Those are the listed win conditions so play accordingly.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Roadbeer, on 01 November 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

I rarely see this, Improve your Elo.

Or drop it: my W/L ratio would have my Elo about near rock bottom, and I see no-fight cap-wins about 1 game in 60.

[Roadbeer]

Shar Wolf, on 01 November 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Or drop it: my W/L ratio would have my Elo about near rock bottom, and I see no-fight cap-wins about 1 game in 60.

So that means, that if it's not common with "Rock Bottom" players, or average players, it must be the uber-competitive that has the problem. That would mean that for all the meta-humping that goes on, they really just CAP each other, it's a super-secret secret among the highest of Elo, and it's just been exposed to the Great Unwashed.

Either that, or it's a solution to something that isn't a problem.



My money is on the later.

[Sean von Steinike]

I rarely ever see any sort of caprace here at all. Map is too small for cap racing if either team has any balls.

[Slepnir]

Davers, on 01 November 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

OP complains teams miss each other as is and you want the maps to be bigger?

To OP: cap races in RC is due to lack of scouting and general cowardly behaviour on the part of the players. Everyone wants to be a sniper and those builds really aren't that good when fighting between buildings.

Actually it isn't because they "miss" each other , it is because the caps are so close and the map so small that they purposely avoid each other. when a slow atlas can walk to the enemy base in say 2 minutes after being able to snipe into the enemy base at mission start the caps are to close and THE MAP IS TO SMALL for 12 players. river city would be an excellent map for lance on lance combat (4V4).

Edited by Slepnir, 01 November 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[CravenMadness]

Man, so many of these maps seem built for numbers of players that aren't available to launch against one another... Canyon, River City, and to some extent even Forest Colony, could be well played with 4v4 or 8v8, whereas maps like Tourmaline, Caustic, and to some extent Forest Colony, should be kept to 8v8 or so... And leave huge maps like Alpine, Crimson Strait, or Terra Therma, to the 12v12 or hardcore 8v8. But... Well.. Ya know... Common Sense in gaming isn't quote so common, nor paid bonuses.

[Lyoto Machida]

aniviron, on 31 October 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I read this as "River City always carapace." That would have been a lot more interesting- mechwarriors banding together to fight a giant enemy crab.

I thought Caprace was some chess or fencing technique I didn't know about.

[Levon K]

Stop running Assault mode. Switch to conquest mode. Much more action, many more options.

[Tahribator]

I don't know what happened but before 12v12, most of the teams used to go upper and we would have decent fights on both modes. Now, we have one team going upper, the other lower, then someone inevitably touches the enemy cap and starts a baserace.

The thing is, nobody wants to stay at base for "defence". If you break off from main group you run the risk of getting swarmed by the enemy; or if both groups clash at the same location you run the risk of crippling your team with your absence.

Both groups staying in base is totally out of question in pugs and when that happens, the side which moves quickly surrounds the enemy and picks them off one by one. The visibility from outside into bases is excellent, while the same isn't true for defenders.

[thesleepyslam]

the problem is that river city is a 4v4 map.

[Bagheera]

Sandpit, on 31 October 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Just FYI, irony isn't a GNC supplement

Heh, no, no it is not.

But irony abounds - like the ironic fact that RC - the biggest "cap race" complaint map - is also the map where both bases have the best layouts for hiding in wait and ambushing the first few cap rushers with your entire team.

Been on both sides of that trap back before team size was upped to 12.

"Oh... an empty base, I wonder where the ene... OH GOD NO FOCUS FIRE FROM 8 MECHS ON ALL SIDES!!!!! <xxxxxxx> has killed Bagheera."

Why no one does this anymore is beyond me.

Edited by Bagheera, 09 November 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Bagheera, on 09 November 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Why no one does this anymore is beyond me.

Because that would make it a thinking persons game.

[Troutmonkey]

Tahribator, on 02 November 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

I don't know what happened but before 12v12, most of the teams used to go upper and we would have decent fights on both modes. Now, we have one team going upper, the other lower, then someone inevitably touches the enemy cap and starts a baserace.

Movement penalties. Team who starts lower have trouble get up via the left side, and go right because of flat terrain.
Team who starts upper go right because of higher ground and advantagious terrain

Doctor Proctor, on 01 November 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

The problem with River City is simple: It's the players

You can easily see the other team from either base at the start of the match, even at night (as long as you don't have night vision or thermal on). Instead of using this to see where the other team is heading, upper or lower, most teams just pick a random direction. Sometimes they meet up and a firefight ensues, but other times they pick opposite directions and then pass each other.

When two teams pass each other, on just about any map, people will tend to just go for the cap. This applies to River City and Canyon mostly, with it happening on Terra Therma, Alpine and Crimson Strait to a lesser extent. In other words, the big maps where the teams can easily sneak by each other when taking different routes. The reason it doesn't happen on Terra Therma, Alpine or Crimson Strait quite as much as the other two is there's a natural center point that tends to attract people (Mt Doom, the Radio Tower, the upper and lower decks by the Saddleback), which leads to engagements. When people forgo those natural middle points though, then it typically turns into a cap race unless some scouts actually go out and find the opposing team.

As for how to fix it, it's hard to say. Defending usually isn't a great idea since most of the bases are in open areas without a lot of cover. This makes it easier to stop an enemy from capping you, but makes it harder to defend them. Leaving a small force is usually worthless since they'll either get smashed when the whole enemy team shows up because they snuck around, or the bulk of you team dies because they're at a numerical disadvantage if the whole team engages them in the center. About the only effective defense is good scouting, but if people don't listen (Such as when I'm scouting River City and I repeatedly spam "They went the other way! Turn around or they're going to start capping us!" multiple times while my team marches to their cap completely oblivious) then it doesn't do any good.

Very well said, too many people fail to understand this.

[Sandpit]

If it's always a caprace how come I just finished a match that ended in all enemies destroyed win condition?

Hyperbole title is still hyperbole.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 10 November 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

If it's always a caprace how come I just finished a match that ended in all enemies destroyed win condition?

Scouting is dead.

Eyes are apparently disconnected from the brain.

Thinking is hard.

You know, it's complicated™.

[Ghogiel]

MadCat02, on 31 October 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Team at spaceship goes upper because its safer......

This is almost always really dumb. And pretty much sums up all the reasons why PUG can feel dumb as well.

You can fricking see the other team from the very start of the match. The only thing the team near the leopard should do is wait at base for 10secs and actually just see where the enemies go. Yeah really using mk1 optical scanners is OP.

Also if you are trying to base rush, never actually go upper. cross the water, not the bridge, into the rocky area and B line it to the enemy base.

If you want to actually fight, camp your base or move a couple mechs forward into the city while support mechs camp base. Never cross the water unless you want to cap or lose by cap. (or in the off chance enemy actually moves up to that direction.)

Edited by Ghogiel, 10 November 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Ghogiel, on 10 November 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

This is almost always really dumb. And pretty much sums up all the reasons why PUG can feel dumb as well.

You can fricking see the other team from the very start of the match. The only thing the team near the leopard should do is wait at base for 10secs and actually just see where the enemies go. Yeah really using mk1 optical scanners is OP.

Also if you are trying to base rush, never actually go upper. cross the water, not the bridge, into the rocky area and B line it to the enemy base.

If you want to actually fight, camp your base or move a couple mechs forward into the city while support mechs camp base. Never cross the water unless you want to cap or lose by cap. (or in the off chance enemy actually moves up to that direction.)

We all know this on the fourms, but due to map and game desgin, it pushes most PUG players (who are unaware of the tactical brilliance of us forum goers) into the "wrong" direction. I do what I can in chat, but without built in VOIP there's only so much you can organise a team.

PS: I only ever run solo, and on occasion have lead some amazing PUG tactics when my team actually listens.

[Ghogiel]

Troutmonkey, on 10 November 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

We all know this on the fourms, but due to map and game desgin, it pushes most PUG players (who are unaware of the tactical brilliance of us forum goers) into the "wrong" direction. I do what I can in chat, but without built in VOIP there's only so much you can organise a team.

PS: I only ever run solo, and on occasion have lead some amazing PUG tactics when my team actually listens.

I didn't learn that on the forums. I learnt that by playing the game. Solo.

While map designs in MWO do leave something to be desired, in this instance I don't think it forces anyone to close their eyes. Plus while solo playing I would actually go and look over there myself anyway... just to be sure.

[Deathlike]

Consider that people play the map twice as often than normal, it should not be "twice as hard" to learn the map.

Unless, learning the map is too difficult. I mean, I guess some people want maps where the enemy spawns in front of you amirite?