100 replies to this topic

[Jaroth Corbett]

hiemfire, on 14 November 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

I am going to need your source, apparently who ever set up the Sarna page for the Outbound Light decided to be sloppy and didn't actually put in references. If that is your source, then there may be a slight issue due to the fact it cites the possibility of them not having been "sent on their way" but possibly taken as bondsmen (not as bad a case as I would expect from Smoke Jaguar, but not the best thing for non-warriors to have happen).

Stormwolf, on 15 November 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

Like Jaroth said, that page is wrong. There is also mention of this in the Clan Wolf sourcebook, I don't have access to my books right now, so I can't give a pagenumber.

IIRC, there is also mention somewhere that Comstar tried to reconstruct the memories of the Outbound Light crew to figure out the location of the Clan homeworlds (this didn't work though).

Actually I think whoever posted on Sarna might actually have a case. Sort of.

Page 17 of The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky shows that when Phelan writes to his father, he believes that the crew of the Outbound Light were tortured the way he was, based on a chemical analysis. He also believes (to his knowledge) that only 7 of the 53 members of the crew were returned to ComStar.

Now in the actual BT universe I can see how this can happen. According to the Jade Falcon sourcebook, it says that before the Smoke Jaguars released the crew & returned them to their point of origin, they put them through "a thorough electro-chemical process" to wipe their memories. Any reports that Phelan would have read could have led him to the conclusion (although a wrong one) that the crew got pumped for info the same way he did when in fact they did get pumped, just not under the same circumstances.

If the person posting on Sarna was using The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky as his source he is correct. Sort of. We need to keep in mind that that book was written by Phelan, who underwent a particularly tough early encounter with the Clans & his view cannot be taken as pure fact. (Especially the fact that he says quite honestly, "To my knowledge....") Well he may be wrong & I think that is the case. I believe the events went just as they say in the Jade Falcon sourcebook due to simple logic.

If 53 people were sent out on a mission & 53 came back & said, "Nah nothing interesting in that region. All uninhabitable as far as we see. Give us the next set of coordinates.", then the people at Comstar would not think twice about it & carry on as usual. If only 7 of the 53 came back & were completely traumatized, I would think they would send more ships in that direction.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 15 November 2011 - 03:19 AM.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

hiemfire, on 14 November 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

Outbound Light jumped into Smoke Jag space? Safe to say they are probably toast. The Jags are not Star Adder or Cloud Cobra as evinced by their later dealings with the Draconis Combine.

Well, they were initially captured unharmed.
So they might've seen labourer-cast work till their final days.

Quote

Neg they did not get toasted. Leo Showers used the information the crew gave him to push for & finally receive the green light for the invasion. The Smoke Jaguars wiped the memories of the crew then sent them back on their way.

Except that they were never heard from again afterwards.
So either they got thouroughly lost, killed, or taken as isorla and put to work.

Quote

Jade Falcon Sourcebook Pg.5

And who's going to trust a Chalchiuhtotolin on Smoke Jaguar matters?
What I can gather from the C* sourcebook, the Outbound Light never made it back to the IS.

[Tannhauser Gate]

The game really needs to support all play styles. It needs to focus on being the immersive and rich mech fighting venue that we all bring our play styles to. It needs to be free of hax, cheats and bugs and be the pure BT / Mechwarrior frame work for our community. The players will bring the Clans, the Houses, the mercs, the pirates, and all the others including people who just want to be ruthless dogs of war with no allegiances or players who are just casually doing some mech gaming. The game needs to be the common ground for all these players but not generic or flat. There should be rules and mechanics in place to support BT style fighting philosophies such as Zellbriggen? Yes. Whatever it takes to let all players bring their in-game personas and fighting styles.

Yes, Steadfast needs to let the dreamers dream. Its wise to have realistic expectations but dreamers are the people who set the bar high and give the developers something to shoot for.

[Kudzu]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 15 November 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

Well, they were initially captured unharmed.
So they might've seen labourer-cast work till their final days.

Except that they were never heard from again afterwards.
So either they got thouroughly lost, killed, or taken as isorla and put to work.

And who's going to trust a Chalchiuhtotolin on Smoke Jaguar matters?
What I can gather from the C* sourcebook, the Outbound Light never made it back to the IS.

The crew was released but suffered a jump malfunction on their way back?

[Jaroth Corbett]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 15 November 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

Well, they were initially captured unharmed.
So they might've seen labourer-cast work till their final days.

Except that they were never heard from again afterwards.
So either they got thouroughly lost, killed, or taken as isorla and put to work.

And who's going to trust a Chalchiuhtotolin on Smoke Jaguar matters?
What I can gather from the C* sourcebook, the Outbound Light never made it back to the IS.

According to Phelan & his interpretation of the reports he read.

The Jade Falcon Loremaster owed no special favors to the Smoke Jaguars, so I do not see any reason to cover up anything.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 15 November 2011 - 09:50 AM.

[Stormwolf]

Interesting, is there any info on the path the Outbound light took?

It would have been interesting if they passed a deep periphery state like Nueva Castile on their way back...

Alternately, Comstar could have been spreading false information to prevent anybody from speaking to the Outbound Light crew.

[wolf on the tide]

star V company (5 V 12) ?
possibly with command lance for IS (5 V 16) ?
(so anyone in a Clan assault mech can actually find/get into a match)

must say i like the "idea" of the Clan players "policing" their own

£0.02 ...cheques in the post

[Jaroth Corbett]

Stormwolf, on 16 November 2011 - 03:58 AM, said:

Interesting, is there any info on the path the Outbound light took?

It would have been interesting if they passed a deep periphery state like Nueva Castile on their way back...

Alternately, Comstar could have been spreading false information to prevent anybody from speaking to the Outbound Light crew.

I will check when I get home.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Only that it wasn't pre-determined, afaik.
They left in 3046, and found Huntress in 3048.
Assuming 1 jump per week, we'd be looking at a path of some 112 jumps.

[Stormwolf]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 16 November 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

Only that it wasn't pre-determined, afaik.
They left in 3046, and found Huntress in 3048.
Assuming 1 jump per week, we'd be looking at a path of some 112 jumps.

They could have taken a wider path then the Exodus road, since that one can be traveled in one year.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Stormwolf, on 16 November 2011 - 03:58 AM, said:

Interesting, is there any info on the path the Outbound light took?

It would have been interesting if they passed a deep periphery state like Nueva Castile on their way back...

Alternately, Comstar could have been spreading false information to prevent anybody from speaking to the Outbound Light crew.

So sorry Stormwolf. I completely forgot about you last night. Here is the info:

The Outbound Light departed from Bone-Norman in the Federated Commonwealth in June 3046, one of several Explorer Corps vessels assigned to explore area coreward of the Inner Sphere & investigate any star systems their commanders deemed promising.

More information is available in the Comstar - Explorer Corps Sourcebook.

If you want anything specific, let me know & I will look for it for you.

MAJOR EDIT: I have never read this book before Stormwolf requested this info. While searching, this book states that the crew of the Outbound Light were taken as bondsmen by Clan Smoke Jaguar. Since this is a Comstar Sourcebook, in my mind this would hold more weight than other Sourcebooks. If I made any statements saying that the crew was returned, I stand corrected.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 17 November 2011 - 09:55 AM.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

According to Explorer Corps, the crew was never returned to C*.
And that is dated to c.15 Jan 3059 in-universe, possibly late 3058.
In short, just before Operation Bulldog.

[GreyGriffin]

Reposted from another thread, I thought it might be useful here.

Clan culture is a culture of etiquette. This is a lesson that the Snow Ravens have learned well over the years, and one which has allowed them to thrive in their own way.

The separation of castes, the honor, the politics, they are all tools of legitimacy. By acting with honor and decorum, by respecting Clanlike behavior, and engaging in it yourself, you accord yourself honor, and thereby legitimacy. Through your accrued honor, you can elevate yourself socially, temporally, and even genetically, if you are worthy of your clan's gene pool. Through honorable conduct, and following proper channels of etiquette, your actions are made legitimate by the laws of society. It is much like an inverse of the rule of law - rather than ascribing punishment for violating the law, actions are made "legal" through proper conduct, up to and including warfare.

However, honor is liquid, and like any good, liquid currency, it can be spent. Acts of deceit and even treachery can be forgiven if conducted for honorable ends - surely even a Spheroid freebirth can see that. And, if a deceitful act is conducted by an honorable person for honorable ends? It is a small mark on his person. His greatness is not eclipsed, and his actions can be made legitimate by drawing on the honor of his actions' intent, or by accepting the besmirching of his reputation, reducing his legitimacy in future actions.

In that way, Clan honor encourages Clanlike behavior - respect for civilians, fairness in trials, prowess in battle and other personal achievement. Once your activities become a hindrance to the Clan, by harming its legitimacy through dishonor, or endangering or inflaming those around you, even if you are undefeatable, your worth is only measured by the honor that others are willing to spend to thwart you through treachery. It is, therefore, unwise to force their hand.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

I'd have to say at this point ... I'd still stick with clan sea fox, (Clan Diamond shark) and back to clan sea fox in 3100.  
Given their nature I'd have to say that most of the lone wolves out there would definitely fall into this clan as well ... hmmm .... maybe when clans roll out ill have to make this clan.
Course ... clan snow raven would have to suck on a hot PPC barrel ...

[MikeIshVard]

THE CLANS ARE DEAD GO BIG OR GO HOME TO YOUR MOMMY CLAN BABY'S

[CoffiNail]

detors, on 29 March 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

THE CLANS ARE DEAD GO BIG OR GO HOME TO YOUR MOMMY CLAN BABY'S

Just because I find your horrible attempts at trolling amusing. Trueborn Clan warriors have no mommys, We know you want to join us, because we took your home planet.

[guardian wolf]

Heh, stupid Steiner, maybe you should think before you post.

[Alkero]

feor, on 13 November 2011 - 12:04 AM, said:

And just for reference, by Clan Law, Wolf's Dragoons are members of the Bandit Caste.

well fudge me, im part of the Wolf Spiders, an off shoot of Wolf's Dragoons ._.

[guardian wolf]

feor, they were not, we were sent to do your dirty work, so don't be talking down on us.

[Uncle Totty]

detors, on 29 March 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

THE CLANS ARE DEAD GO BIG OR GO HOME TO YOUR MOMMY CLAN BABY'S

Bondsman detors got into the coolant storage room agen.