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Incidental, Non-Dedicated Spotting In Pugs


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#1 mubo

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 01:28 AM

I don't think we get enough spotting meta (likely due to the mixed opinions on LRMs), here are my thoughts:

Landing LRMs is often a tricky business, and doing so reliably against seasoned players demands spotting assistance from your teammates. In PUGs, LRM carrying mechs cannot expect reliable spotting every game.
Being a dedicated spotter-light in PUGs is a pretty hit-or-miss affair. If your team is LRM-light, a TAG is deadweight and you must adapt your role to something else. If your team does not communicate very well even if they are LRM-heavy, you might still not be very effective.

In solo PUGs, being a dedicated spotter is generally not advisable, and the lack of reliable spotting makes LRMs less flexible.

I have some tips that have been discussed at length elsewhere, but I think are not fully appreciated by most players. You can spot very efficiently without equipping a TAG (which really isn't that critical) and without significantly changing your playstyle. These things do not match the performance of competitive spotters, but are valuable in PUGs. Two modules can greatly increase the ability of any light, with almost any playstyle, to more reliably spot for LRMs: 360 target and target decay. Target decay helps any mech of any weight in any role also contribute to spotting.

Back Facing Target Retention (really helps light mechs spot, and may become very useful in other capacities after seismic sensor changes)
LRMs and spotting:
In my personal experience this module is absolutely amazing on light mechs, not because of a combat advantage directly imparted on you, but for the purposes of incidental spotting. Anyone who has played an LRM carrying mech has had the experience of firing at a target that appears to be hard-locked by a light, only to suddenly lose the lock despite the light mech's continued proximity to the target. This is because the light mech turned away from the enemy it had been targeting. A light mech under fire has to move continuously, as a result it is sometimes difficult, impractical, or even suicidal to continue to face the same enemy mech. With 360 target, the light is able to keep targeting the enemy mech even while moving around rapidly (assuming it is withing 200m). This can make the difference of one or more salvos of missiles either hitting or missing the target, which is nothing to scoff at.
Individual benefits:
In the past, many people have used this module to keep track of targets during a furious brawl, although that role is currently better done with seismic sensors (as seismic sensors are not limited to one enemy target, and do not require LOS to initiate tracking, although you will not have target info). Since seismic sensors will soon undergo significant changes, its usefulness in keeping track of targets moving in and out of LOS may significantly increase.

Target Decay (helps all mechs spot, and may become more useful in other capacities after seismic sensor changes)
LRMs and spotting:
In my experience, this is a supremely useful module for a large variety of playstyles, I love this module. When using missiles, the advantages are obvious, and target decay allows you to reliably hit targets that would otherwise be a coin toss (e.g. moderately fast ridge humpers, mechs weaving between buildings, etc.). The ability to hold missile lock just a little bit longer when the enemy goes out of vision considerably improves the flexibility of LRMs. This module also allows you to extend your target decay on an enemy that has moved into ECM cover. The real reason I really love this module is that you get a lot (I mean a lot) of spotting assists. If you see a mech with a friendly missile incoming marker that is heading for cover, target him, and if your LRM carrying friend did not have target decay you may have just made his missiles hit. This module significantly improves the spotting and tracking capabilities of all mechs, even ones that would normally have very little value as a spotter.
Individual benefits:
This module also has some value to brawlers as it helps you keep track of enemies that have gone behind cover (what side of the building will that guy come from?), however seismic currently does a better job of this. With the coming seismic sensor changes, this module may become quite useful to brawlers trying to keep track of a target weaving around buildings. (This module also seems to sometimes give you spotting assists points for your own missiles if the enemy has moved into cover after you fired)

Sensor range module can allow you to spot from greater distances (which is sometimes useful, but not to the degree of the above modules).


So, if you are running any sort of light mech, equipping 360 target massively improves your spotting capabilities even when you are in the thick of it, and target decay significantly improves the spotting abilities of any mech. Throw in BAP and you have some ability to counter enemy ECM. Many people will be hesitant to sacrifice valuable module slots for these things, but I believe it is usually worth it. These things have practical uses outside of spotting (which will likely become much more important after seismic sensors are reeled in).

Edited for being even more repetitive than it presently is

Edited by Maxime Rougon, 27 October 2013 - 01:40 AM.


#2 Tauwolf

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:19 AM

Very nice write up!

#3 LORD TSARKON

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:30 PM

I have the 360 Target Retention on my DDC ATlas.... I"ve seen it worked better on that mech than any Light mech..

Most of the time when I"m in a Light mech Taggin (usually in my spiders), when I run away in SECONDs I'm beyond that 200 meter range of the 360 Target Retention.... making it useless in most cases for LIGHTS...

Just my opinion... Everything else you mentioned I agree

#4 Pjwned

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:22 AM

I don't know about other people but as somebody who pilots a jenner frequently there's no way I would bother with 360 target retention, especially for how much it costs to unlock it. Target decay might be a different story, but considering how much that costs as well (and how much more important a module like seismic sensor is in addition to buying new mechs and such) for how relatively little benefit it gives, I'm not likely to have it equipped for quite a while.

EDIT: LOL SO MUCH FOR SEISMIC SENSORS

Edited by Pjwned, 06 November 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#5 Baltasar

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:33 AM

1. Great write up on how to help out LRM boats in PUG or even useful modules for a spotting mech in general.

2. The problem with PUGs is that I have no clue what mech I will get. Will I have LRMs on my team or not. So, most cases, it's useful for me to use modules that I are more beneficial no matter what team make up I get. aka Seismic, (in a light mech capture accelerator never hurts), target gathering info so I can find the weakest mech and their damage spots faster (for the life of me I can never understand why people don't press R just to see the best place to aim or cycle through to find the most damage mech but that is another thread altogether.) Or even UAV is decent enough now to be useful for a light mech to take.

The thing is, if I can't spot long enough to retain lock for an lrm mech, then the lrm mech needs to hold fire anyways because my target is more than likely in a place where they can't be hit by LRMs. Coupled with the fact that LRMs are the most effective when the LRM mech has line of site and tagging it's own targets to get the maximum advantage of LRMs because you know they can hit that way.

TL:DR these modules are better for the LRM mech rather than the light mech because there are better modules to take in PUGs unless you are planning to the role the dice and be a spotter for LRMs that may or may not be there.

#6 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:05 PM

I almost exclusively pilot mediumsand only PUG. When using LRMs I will definately have TAG and often when not. I almost never get within 200m of a mech by design as mediums die quickly (were bigger and slower than lights).
When a furball is established I do R targets while hanging back and hitting engaged enemy. If LRMs are incoming I will hold a target as long as possible. Target decay is useful to me but not 360.
One problem is that LRMs are rarely that useful to the team unless boated, however much enjoyment I may get from it.

#7 Otto Cannon

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:17 PM

Enemy targeted for missile barrage...you may commence firing when rea- Ooh look! A squirrel! *runs away*

#8 Baltasar

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:06 PM

View PostOtto Cannon, on 31 October 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Enemy targeted for missile barrage...you may commence firing when rea- Ooh look! A squirrel! *runs away*


That's why, when I play my lrm mech, I play a catapult with 2 lrm 15s that goes over 75 kph, I tag my own targets so I don't have to worry about spotters and what modules they have equipped. Plus I can ensure more of my missiles hit.

#9 Otto Cannon

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:18 PM

View PostBaltasar, on 03 November 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:


That's why, when I play my lrm mech, I play a catapult with 2 lrm 15s that goes over 75 kph, I tag my own targets so I don't have to worry about spotters and what modules they have equipped. Plus I can ensure more of my missiles hit.


That's the most effective way to land missiles, but sometimes having to keep tag fixed on the enemy while they shoot back with PPCs and autocannons would be suicide because the flight speed of your missiles is so slow. They could do with being a bit faster imho, since most teams have ECM and you're often forced to use TAG. I can see why nobody uses LRMs at high level.

I like my LRM mechs to be fast too, positioning is vital when you have a minimum range and lights see you as a prime target.





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