17 replies to this topic

[Slaphammer]

I built a LCT-3S with four SRM2's, based on what I was reading in another thread. I still only have single heat sinks (keep forgetting to invest in this mech when I have credits available), but I have 4 of them. The game says that my heat efficiency is 1.31. I have a lot of other mechs with roughly that efficiency, many of them worse. For some reason, the heat dissipation on this Locust is much slower than on any other mech. I've dug around but can't figure out why. What am I missing? The slow cooldown doesn't match up with a 1.31 efficiency, based on what I've experienced with other mechs.

[Spheroid]

No that is correct, you will overheat from frequent firing SRM2s. They have a quick cycle time. You must either chainfire or switch to SRM4s or you will melt.

[FupDup]

It still runs ridiculously hot even with DHS.

[Slaphammer]

I'm not talking about how fast heat builds up, I'm talking about how slowly the heat bar drops back down. If I'm moving, it barely drops at all -- I have to go hide somewhere and stand still to let it slowly crawl back down.

Edited by Slaphammer, 03 November 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Spheroid]

You must also remember that small engines have small heat capacities, pushing you into the red zone much quicker.

[FireSlade]

Spheroid, on 03 November 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

You must also remember that small engines have small heat capacities, pushing you into the red zone much quicker.

Heat sinks within the engine up to a max of 10 at on a 250 engine offer improved heat dissipation. The cooling rate is 0.2 per DHS in the engine (extras that you can mount to the engine do not count towards this) and 0.14 per DHS outside and extra engine heat sinks. I do not remember the SHS rate but most mechs cannot stay heat neutral with singles on Terra Therma so better to upgrade anyways. One last thing, every 25 engine ratings gain another engine heat sink until you hit the 10 max which is on the 250 then you gain a heat sink slot and it takes up 1ton but no crits.

[Slaphammer]

Again, I have no question about the rate at which heat builds up. The thing that is strange about this mech is that the heat dissipates very slowly -- the slowest I've ever seen, except one time when I ran a mech with 0.98 heat efficiency. Most of my mechs are somewhere between 1.2-1.3 efficiency and dissipate heat much faster than this Locust with 1.31 efficiency. If anything, it should be one of my better mechs for reducing heat levels, not one of the worst. Unless there's something fundamental which is just going over my head.

[Spheroid]

Do you have 2X basics unlocked?

[Slaphammer]

No, I don't have all the basics unlocked on this Locust yet but I do have them all unlocked on another. You know, the strangeness of this issue and the fact that nobody knows what I'm talking about makes me think that I may have run into a bug. This may have been the mech that originally had 0.98 efficiency, I can't remember. Perhaps it is still operating at 0.98, even though my modifications should have it at 1.31 efficiency?

[FireSlade]

Slaphammer, on 03 November 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Again, I have no question about the rate at which heat builds up. The thing that is strange about this mech is that the heat dissipates very slowly -- the slowest I've ever seen, except one time when I ran a mech with 0.98 heat efficiency. Most of my mechs are somewhere between 1.2-1.3 efficiency and dissipate heat much faster than this Locust with 1.31 efficiency. If anything, it should be one of my better mechs for reducing heat levels, not one of the worst. Unless there's something fundamental which is just going over my head.

This is because most other mech that you use which I assume have bigger engines. Heat sinks that are within the engine cool you off at a faster rate than mechs with them outside of the engine. You can use http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ and use the weapon lab tool to figure out your rate. I believe that you mentioned having 4 outside SHS which would put you at a dissipation rate of 1 heat per second 4 SRM 2s make 8 heat so that means that it takes 8 seconds to come back to 0 heat and that is not including the map temperatures. With other mechs you probably would run at least 10 DHS inside of the engine meaning that you cool at a rate of 2 heat per second instead of your locust's 1 heat per second. The number that PGI uses for heat efficiency is just a rough estimate and not really to be relied on since the maps skew the efficiency of the mech.

[Slaphammer]

Yeah, it just dawned on me. Changing weapons would change the heat efficiency, but it has nothing to do with how fast heat dissipates. To control that, I need more and/or double heat sinks. The only other small mech I've piloted in recent memory is a Commando, but it does have doubles. So I think you're right, I'm just not used to an engine so tiny that the built-in heat sinks are this inadequate. So, more than any other mech I've piloted, this one really requires double heat sinks.

[FupDup]

SHS have the same effectiveness no matter where they are slotted (0.1 heat per second cooled). Only DHS are less effective when outside of the engine.

Edited by FupDup, 03 November 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I don't even think I own a mech that still has single heat sinks. They're that important that it is the first upgrade a new mech has to have.

Even firing a single heat sink on Terra Therma in a Commando and not even bothering with missiles at all I could not get the heat to go away with SHS.

No, Double Heat Sinks and Endo Steel are on every mech I own, with the odd exception I go without Endo steel on big energy boats that need the room for lots of DHS. As far as heat sinks go, you have to install double heat sinks every time.

[Lexx]

Put the single heat sinks in your legs and stand in the water if you want to cool down faster. Single heat sinks in a mechs legs cool twice as fast if they are submerged.

[Thejuggla]

Had a similar problem, I tried a 4 MG spider with a medium pulse and 11 or so SHS and a decent heat efficiency. I figured that would be more than enough for 1 medium pulse but running I would barley lose any heat(Like you said)

After upgrading to DHS it seemed a lot better, I think Singles are just broken.

[Slaphammer]

I do usually upgrade to DHS, but I haven't yet on any of my Locusts because I keep spending all my credits on my heavy and assault mechs. But I need to address these Locusts in order to make them reasonably playable.

I think the problem is just that the Locust's engine (XL 190 in this case) has so few built-in heat sinks that I'm getting significantly worse performance than what I usually see from a mech before upgrading to DHS. It was very strange because I've never seen heat dissipate so slowly on any other mech, but I think it makes sense now.

This also makes me realize that the heat efficiency rating is kinda bogus. Or, at least, it doesn't mean what I thought it meant. Or the calculation needs some work...not sure.

Edited by Slaphammer, 04 November 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Windsaw]

So do I understand it correctly:
In addition to be plagued by vulnerable legs, a claustrophobic cockpit, no speed advantage over other lights the Locust has been additionally nerfed by having to spend additional tons for heat sinks and on top of that their average heat sinks aren't even as efficient as those of other mechs?

Wow, PGI seems to try very hard to make Locust a liability to every team.

Does the Locust even have a single advantage in matches, no matter how small?

[Shadey99]

Windsaw, on 04 November 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

nerfed by having to spend additional tons for heat sinks

This is not really true. In TT engines weigh more than in MWO. PGI decided that it was easier to have one type of heat sink rather than two (TT has '0 weight' heatsinks to reach 10 in mechs that run engines below a 250 rating), so they reduced the weight of all the lighter engines to match the final outcome. In TT however you still took a penalty for critical space based on external heatsinks. So really compared to TT the two systems are effectively identical. Both systems though increase critical space requirements by forcing the 'not included inside the engine' heatsinks outside the engine. Also in MWO for DHS (and only DHS), the heatsinks inside an engine are true 2.0 'double' heatsinks while those outside the engine are 1.4 'not really double' heatsinks.