154 replies to this topic

[Escef]

Gallowglas, on 05 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Respectfully, Peef: the problem isn't that they're particularly OP. It's that there's a sporatic issue in which damage doesn't register properly. People aren't just being poor shots and imagining it. No, it's not just limited to the Spider either. I've seen it happen with Phracts and even Victors too, but it seems to happen very frequently with Spiders. Heck, two of our Spider pilots (finally) acknowledged it when they saw it in action on one of their Spiders last night. The paper doll flashes and very little damage registers, if any.

I've repeated pegged a DC'd spider in the CT/Head area with an ERLL at almost point blank and it took almost no damage. I must have shot it 5 or 6 times. I think angle might play into it as well. When something that is already hard to hit also has an issue where damage sometimes does not register properly it artificially inflates the difficulty, even moreso for those who are not consistent shooters.

[New Day]

PEEFsmash, on 05 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

If Spiders could replace Jenners and Ravens in competitive play, it would be the first thing we would do. They weigh less, which would free up more tonnage for the real mechs that go out there and win the game (aka Assaults).

Do you really think that you have found some super-secret imbalance that none of the rest of us know about? You think you found out that the Spider is "broken" and those who spend hours and hours testing mechs just never thought to try it out? We all try it out, and guess what, if you play against people who can aim, Spiders are terrible. None of the top teams use them. All top teams use mainly Jenners, and occasionally Ravens. We try Spiders every once in awhile, but it never works out. Why? Again, the general population is absolutely horrible at aiming, they think they hit when they don't, and they misrepresent their own abilities.

TL;DR: You think Spiders are invincible because you cannot hit them. The best players in this game might find Spiders as a bit of an annoyance, but they are one of the worst and least-used mechs in the game at a competitive level because they are bad against good players. Next time you want to make a thread about how broken and OP Spiders are, remember that the reason you are saying it is because you haven't taken the time to learn how to aim or position yourself properly, and if you were good you would not think they are "too good." Saying you think Spiders are "too good" is a perfect litmus test for detecting a bad or average player, because there is a grand total of 0, zilch, nada top players who think Spiders are "too good" EVEN IF they think they have hit detection problems. Remember that, you are calling attention to your own poor play by saying you think Spiders are overpowered.

sigh

▶ Spider hit bug still a problem. - YouTube
▶ MWO - Spider Hitboxes Nominal - YouTube
Homeless_Bill - **** Spiders Part 1 - Twitch

[Appogee]

NamesAreStupid, on 08 November 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

▶ Spider hit bug still a problem. - YouTube
▶ MWO - Spider Hitboxes Nominal - YouTube
Homeless_Bill - **** Spiders Part 1 - Twitch

The elite players of competitive play are so good that, even though they don't play Spiders in competitive matches, they still know there's nothing wrong with Spiders.

[Appogee]

Escef, on 07 November 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I think angle might play into it as well.

The elite players of competitive play are so good they never have to shoot enemies at an angle.

[CGB Behemoth]

Today i had a chance to shoot overheated Spider from backside with my Hawk (AC20+2xML+1xSRM4). After my clear shoot he run away with red CT. I've made at least 30 DMG into CT & he just run away!
NO spiders not bugged! Now i'm sure! (sarcasm)

[levitas]

Behemothk, on 09 November 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

Today i had a chance to shoot overheated Spider from backside with my Hawk (AC20+2xML+1xSRM4). After my clear shoot he run away with red CT. I've made at least 30 DMG into CT & he just run away!
NO spiders not bugged! Now i'm sure! (sarcasm)

Had he taken no damage (or a little bit only) on the back beforehand? I run 12 back armor, 30 to my back would leave me with 2 HP (deep red) if I was fresh, and this could be a weirdo that runs more than me because he likes being chased.

[Belorion]

There is a major flaw in the OP point. The 3L is nothing special without ecm. Ecm only protects against lrms and streaks. If the comps have mega aim that negates all pilot skill then they should be bringing Jenners not Ravens.

[Krazy Karl]

PEEFsmash, on 05 November 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

I love the denials that top players are good. Its always one of the funniest moments of these threads. Top players have shown time and time again that they can use the worst {Scrap} frankenmechs that you and everyone else uses, and dominate you and your friends even if your friends were using the best "meta builds." This kind of thing has been demonstrated so often that it's unbelievable. My Raven 2X and 4X, as well as my Commandos all have positive W/Ls. Why? Take a guess! (It isn't because they are top metagame mechs!)



Please don't make me have to call on my credentials again, because I always do it happily. You could just pick someone who you are willing to admit is a top tier player, if you know any, and ask them if I belong.

confirming he doesn't belong

[Clit Beastwood]

I applaud Peef for causing so many people to dump time into this thread. Seriously Peef, put your hand on the screen so I can Internet hi 5 you.

[-Natural Selection-]

Would love to see some 1v1 (mech vs same) arenas.

[PEEFsmash]

ShotgunWillie, on 07 November 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Aw, man! You ruined it. PEEF was sure 85% of the people reading this thread wouldn't have noticed that if you hadn't pointed it out....



No, really. PEEF is an awesome player. At least 85% of the people in Hells Black Aces will tell you so!



I just asked Syllogy. He is laughing 85% louder than he normally does.

Syllogy is irrelevant trash ggclose

Edited by PEEFsmash, 14 November 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[CrashieJ]

Odins Fist, on 05 November 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

All I know is what i'm told...
.

Hit detection and HSR is the problem, not the hitboxes. the fact that I can shoot them, get hit confirmation, but have ZERO damage register, thats what makes me hate this game.

[Odins Fist]

gavilatius, on 14 November 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Hit detection and HSR is the problem, not the hitboxes. the fact that I can shoot them, get hit confirmation, but have ZERO damage register, thats what makes me hate this game.

Here is what I said before...

Odins Fist, on 05 November 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Spiders are not OP... A lot of people have no problems HITTING Spiders...
Most people have a problem with them not taking damage in relation to the damage output of their weapons. or at least that's what they think.

There is no consistency when it comes to damage done to spiders, people are saying the same exact situation should not produce so many different results to the point at which the community has noticed.

When all your indicators show a HIT, yet no additional damage is done, then there is some sort of issue.
How is a newer player supposed to gauge whether or not everything his instruments and visual indications show is actually happening? I think that has a lot of newer players scratching their heads.

Hitting them is not the problem... People thinking that their shots are just sliding off the Spider is.
Now this doesn't happen every single time with the Spider, BUT here is the problem, are you ready for it..??
There is NO CONSISTENCY.

#1. Sometimes all indicators show a hit and what seems to be very little damage is done. (armor or no armor left)
#2. Sometimes all indicators show the exact same hit, and all damage seems to be done. (armor or no armor left)
#3. Sometimes all indicators show the exact same hit, and ZERO damage seems to be done. (armor or no armor left)
#4. Sometimes all indicators show the exact same hit, and the Spider dies even though he had what looks like full armor.
#5. Sometimes no sensors show hit, only visual confirmation of round hitting, and Spider takes no damage.
#6. Sometimes no sensors show hit, only visual confirmation of round hitting, and Spider dies.

These issues do NOT exist soley with the Spider, and this is NOT always the case with killing an enemy Spider.
However, the frequency of uncertainty as it relates to the damage the Spider takes depending on examples #1 to #6, is quite apparent in comments from players in the community.

Is this a Hit Box issue..?? Unknown, and perhaps there is no design flaw with the mech itself.
Is this HSR issue..?? Possible, but we haven't been given any concrete info to look at.

Is there no issue at all..?? More then highly unlikely, the amount of feedback sighting the same issues over, and over, and over, and over, and over again by multitudes of players across the board, and even from those that pilot Spiders says otherwise.

I ran a Spider©-Trial for a few rounds one day, and I was surprised at the inconsistency of the damage I was taking considering I was weaving in and out of large formations of the enemy, I just couldn't believe that 5 mechs at a a time all had so awful AIM that they couldn't manage to get my Armor past yellow, and that my arms or legs didn't come off after the amount of fire I received.. Maybe I wasn't being hit as much as I thought...

It's funny that using the same approach to aiming and hitting other lights going similar speeds is seen to produce different results by players, this indicated by comments I have read.
I will say this, I know the Locust has nowhere near the armor of a Spider, but I have obliterated so many Locusts with FAR less effort then I have Spiders using the same approach..
Is my AIM off that much..?? Possible, but highly unlikely, and I have seen examples #1 through #6 myself to varying degrees.

No issue with how the Spider takes damage?
Oh well, only the future will tell huh..??
.
.

[CrashieJ]

Odins Fist, on 14 November 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Here is what I said before...

*proof*

I demand to see the official hitboxes for all the mechs... if PGI wants us to understand it's not the hitboxes, then we have to know.

[HuskerUK]

Hillslam, on 05 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Three points:

1 - Peef getting rolled by the forum backlash is hilarious
2 - His assumption that all good shots are only playing with clans is hilarious
3 - Spider unhittability is reproducible. Here's how -


Take on a spider with a ping ~50 or so. You will blow the {Scrap} out of it. Easy Peasy.
Now, Take on a spider rocking a 140-180 or worse ping (like the pings our european friends get). Gooooood luck.

Done.

It also works the other way, I'm punished for my geographical location, my internet isn't bad and I average about 100-120 ping here in the UK and I'd say 8 out of 10 on my AC shots don't register at all on most lights not just spiders. It got to a point where if I didn't have enough energy weapons I'd bin off trying to kill anything smaller then a Cicada