14 replies to this topic

[Oni Ralas]

Vaporizing armor has to add some residual heat... let it soak into the HS and bump up the targets cooldown threshold.

I dunno, thinking of weird ways to help ballance out dakka direct damage vs. DoT

[darkchylde]

You would take that role away from flamers if you applied it to all energy weapons.

[Murphy7]

Well, the heat being applied to the armor is vaporizing it, the act of vaporizaiton is cooling the mech (since the enthalpy of vaporizaation, or more appropriately, the enthalpy of sublimation) is most cases endothermic.

While silly past the point absurdity, imagine the damage you doing to the target mech actually helping the target's heat dissipation.

[Suko]

I actually like this idea. It doesn't have to be much heat transfer at all, but a little would make energy a bit more worthwhile.

I used to be an energy-based mech pilot for a LONG time, then I got the Jagger and saw how much easier it was to get kills and dmg points with dakka. Yes, ballistics have their downsides, too. But I firmly believe that dakka beats energy hands down.

[SinnerX]

If anything, this will further hinder energy weapons by adding more heat to the metagame, and making the cooler ballistic weapons even more attractive options.

[Oni Ralas]

darkchylde, on 07 November 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

You would take that role away from flamers if you applied it to all energy weapons.

Only if the total amount took was at or above flamer level.

I would say flamers would add *MUCH* more direct heat (than they currently do now even) than the small penaltiy applied by lasors.

SinnerX, on 07 November 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

If anything, this will further hinder energy weapons by adding more heat to the metagame, and making the cooler ballistic weapons even more attractive options.

Only if dakka doesn't suffer more chance at ammo explosions due to heat

[focuspark]

... and a few hundred grams of matter slamming into something at super sonic speeds doesn't generate any heat?

yeah, no. If ballistics don't heat up the target 'mech neither do lasers.

[Homeless Bill]

It's called the flamer and it's bad.

[Mudhutwarrior]

focuspark, on 07 November 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

... and a few hundred grams of matter slamming into something at super sonic speeds doesn't generate any heat?

yeah, no. If ballistics don't heat up the target 'mech neither do lasers.

Ever hear of laser sintering? Its not possible to heat surrounding areas as was described well above. Look it up and watch a 3d machine produce a perfect metal part instead of a blob.

[focuspark]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 November 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Ever hear of laser sintering? Its not possible to heat surrounding areas as was described well above. Look it up and watch a 3d machine produce a perfect metal part instead of a blob.

watch video. notice the flame. understand that it comes from the projectile moving so fast that the friction causes the air heat up and ignite. then understand what i'm saying. lasers can be hot, so can collisions.

the air ignites from only a tiny fraction of the energy being transmitted as friction. once that slug slams into something all of the energy will transfer and a large fraction will become heat energy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Murphy7, on 07 November 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Well, the heat being applied to the armor is vaporizing it, the act of vaporizaiton is cooling the mech (since the enthalpy of vaporizaation, or more appropriately, the enthalpy of sublimation) is most cases endothermic.

While silly past the point absurdity, imagine the damage you doing to the target mech actually helping the target's heat dissipation.

Bigwerz hert mi hed!

[Oni Ralas]

focuspark, on 07 November 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

... and a few hundred grams of matter slamming into something at super sonic speeds doesn't generate any heat?

yeah, no. If ballistics don't heat up the target 'mech neither do lasers.

A ballistic impact pales in comparison to the heat energy released by a 1+ second sustained hit from a beam.

Would you like me to calculate the actual thermal expansion rate for an AC20? I will..

[Purlana]

Okay but then we should calculated if the AC/20 rounds should tip over your mech depending on tonnage...

[Oni Ralas]

focuspark, on 07 November 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

watch video. notice the flame. understand that it comes from the projectile moving so fast that the friction causes the air heat up and ignite. then understand what i'm saying. lasers can be hot, so can collisions.

the air ignites from only a tiny fraction of the energy being transmitted as friction. once that slug slams into something all of the energy will transfer and a large fraction will become heat energy.

What you are seeing in the "flame" is mostly plasma discharge from the *ridiculously inefficient* rail system. Friction does ignite the dust in the air, but we're talking two totally different forces at work here. The total energy of the projectile is not discernible from the "flame" being spat out the other end.

Hell, I can produce a 4' plasma discharge from one of my rail guns here at the house, and they're only 2400uf caps.

Now, back to the topic -- the projectiles in MWO aren't traveling all that fast. Most projectiles in modern combat aren't flying anywhere *near* the hypersonic speeds of a railgun. It's a pretty show for sure, but not really applicable for our discussion.

Is there heat generation on impact? Sure.

Experiment time!
Q: Is that heat generation going to be higher than a focused beam of light?

E: Shoot a .22LR @ 20m at a aluminum plate. Now hold a 1 watt laser (which you can build in your basement) for 1 second on the same thickness of plate.

A: Which one do you think gets hotter?

Purlana, on 07 November 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Okay but then we should calculated if the AC/20 rounds should tip over your mech depending on tonnage...

Last time I did the math I think the muzzle energy of the AC20 was around the same as a 18-wheeler going 60mph. But, I did the match based on the projectile being the total mass of round/ton, but in reality a good chunk of that mass is comprised by the case and powder. If someone knows the actual projectile weight we can easily figure it out.

[Oni Ralas]

Murphy7, on 07 November 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Well, the heat being applied to the armor is vaporizing it, the act of vaporizaiton is cooling the mech (since the enthalpy of vaporizaation, or more appropriately, the enthalpy of sublimation) is most cases endothermic.

While silly past the point absurdity, imagine the damage you doing to the target mech actually helping the target's heat dissipation.

Sublimation is endothermic, however you aren't accounting for the fact that this isn't linear. The heat required to "feed" the endothermic change is not from the mech, but from the beam. All the additional waste heat from the beam that could *not* change metal into gas becomes absorbed by mech itself. As soon as the beam is removed, and no longer changing metal into gas, we've just got a giant shunt of waste heat from all the surrounding areas. That is heat soak baby! Now we've got an endo thermic reaction still taking place as that FAR hotter surface heat is being pulled into the mech, while also fighting the exothermic reaction of your reactor trying to shed waste heat. All of that combines into one really hot ******* mech