284 replies to this topic

[Hythos]

I'm getting a bit late to the party, but I figure I could add a couple points of note:
** Note - some of this has been said via various sources throughout the thread, but I won't have time to quote them....

The ComGuards' forces were deployed by 6's
Rather than having a conventional break-down by "Lance", etc, they used Units:
I = an individual unit - 'Mech, Veh, Inf. Platoon, Aero
II = 6x individual units
III = 6x II's, or 36 individual units, as a "Battalion"
IV = 6x Battalions, or 216 individual units, as a "Division"
V = 6x Divisions, or 1296 individual units, as an "Army"

Most ComGuard units had been refitted or were already of Star League vintage

A large supply of Vlar300XL engines were available, allowing ComStar to refit, or manufacture new hardware

Additional units fielded by CS:
BL9-KNT - ERPPC, LPL, 2xLL, 4xMPL, Hatchet, XL, Endo
CHP-3N - LL, LB10-X, SRM-6+A, XL, FF
HSR 400-D - LB10-X, XL, FF
KGC-001 - 2xGauss Rifle, LRM-15, LPL, 2xSSRM-2, FF, CASE
WVE-9N - LRM-10, LPL, 2xMPL, 1xSSRM-2, XL, FF, CASE

A huge majority of ComGuard units were sourced from available Caches, and Castles Brian, each, where more than full regiments could be kept and stored (20 on Terra alone).

ComGuards began mobilization in anticipation of action against the Clans approximately one year prior to Tukayyid.

Travel-time from most periphery edges to Tukayyid could take a full year; Average jump-ship recharge time would take 4-9 days per system. Travel from the Pentagon worlds would take 12-15? months.

ComGuards were notified to conduct sneak-attack tactics vs Clan assets, to remain in a low-power state until Clan units were immediately adjacent to their position, and to Alpha (allowing for a first-strike before Clans could respond). Only those units in such a firing-position were to engage with the remaining units to lay-in-wait until their such opportunity.

Without restrictions of Zelbrigen, ComGuards had employed artillery, land-mines, and used terrain (such as the tight confinements and dangerously thin geyser pools the aptly named, Devil's Bath).

ComGuards 1st Division was used to attack and secure re-supply caravans from Steel Viper to prevent them from resupplying, as well as again vs Ghost Bear along their advance towards Spanac.


The Clans *were* informed to prepare for a long fight, and with energy-heavy load-outs, but individual Clans were to run at their own discretion.


Clan-composition did contain a mix of Elementals, and rarely Conventional Infantry & Vehicles

Significant losses were inflicted vs Nova Cat when the 417th Division Aerospace fighters destroyed their Alpha Galaxy command-ship, and other Steel Viper Alpha losses were "entire stars disappeared into the boiling mud" at Devil's Bath.

Each Clan deployed unique tactics - such as the Steel Viper's 2-prong attack called "Fangs"

ComGuards' personnel had been maintained since the fall of the Star League (1), with at least one MechWarrior of the 1st Division (recognized by the Steel Viper's Zeta Galaxy 2nd Fang) as having been identified as having genetic similarities to a Clan Wolverine Warrior.

Additional recruitment came via Explorer Corps, at the least

Zelbrigen and honor did much to damage the Clan's success, dooming Steel Viper's Alpha after planet-wide insults issued by the 6th Divisions' Commander (via his Atlas uplink); Alpha Galaxy was in withdrawl, but returned to fight (killed the 6th Div, but wasted all of their ammunition in the process).

Clan Wolf disregarded Zelbrigen in favor of 10ERPPC's to the face of single ComGuard units; consequently, they did the best...


----Unrelated to Tukayyid:

Because Periphery "worlds went silent" as the Clans advanced, it would seem that ComStar either released those HPG worlds without fighting, OR, those fights were not recorded. It's entirely possible that ComStar had withdrawn without incident

[Hythos]

I've still been trying to figure out discrepancies between reference material and Scenario books...

IE, Tukayyid Scenario pg80, Steel Viper campaign lists 1st Viper Guards as the following:

Krait Star (Assault) - Warhawk CO: Star Captain Illusha Kearny
1 Trinary (Assault) - CO: Star Commander Delevan
1 Super Nova (2 Omni Star / 2 Elemental Stars) - CO: Star Commander Rose
1 Super Nova (2 Omni Star / 2 Elemental Stars) - CO: Star Commander Ahab
1 Binary (2 Omni Stars (heavy)) - CO: Star Commander Leslie

Where as other materials report:

1st Viper Guards: 5 Tri - Elite (Elemental-heavy) - 3 'Mech, 2 Elemental
A Com Cluster Command: 1 Star - Alpha Galaxy CMDR Chrisopher Ahmed
Aide - Star Captain Federico Varga
Cluster Command, A1V Com Head: 1 Star - CO: Star Col. Elias Andrews
Trinary Alhpa: 1 Krait, 2 Boa Stars - CO: Star Captain Benjamin (sunk?)
Trinary Bravo: 1 Krait, Boa, Mamba - CO: Star Captain Beth
Trinary Charlie: 1 Krait, Boa, Mamba - CO: Star Captain Michaela
Trinary Delta: 1 Rattler Star, 2 Cobra Stars - CO: Star Captain Deanne
Trinary Echo: 1 Rattler Star, 2 Cobra Stars - CO: Star Captain Pueblo


Additionally, Bloodright scenario pg10 and Warden Clans pg146 both reference the Steel Viper's 250th Assault Cluster - which is not listed anywhere else (that I can find). ** Edit - Additionally, the Invading Clans pg96, Battle Cobra description also refers to yet another "vapor" Cluster, the "205th Viper Striker Cluster" which fielded almost an entire trinary of Battle Cobras:
"During the battle for Tukayyid, the 205th Viper Striker Cluster (the Fangs of Blood) equipped a Trinary primarily with Battle Cobras. During the initial thrust at Devil's Bath, the 205th Battle Cobras played a key roll in skirting the lanks of the Vipers' Com Guard opponents.
At the end of the battle, most of the Battle Cobras were still operational...."
Here's where there's another conflict - there was as 250th (if 205 was a typo) but it was an Assault Cluster, and the 57th Striker Cluster was in Gamma Galaxy with only their Delta Trinary having been able to field a Battle Cobra-majority; the 57th was almost totally destroyed.


The difference means a variation of 113 'Mech Stars vs 136.
Estimated total of Clan Steel Viper units:
136 'Mech Stars (~680 'Mechs)
33 Aerospace Stars (165 ASF)
29 Elemental Stars (725 Elemental units)
26 Conventional Infantry Stars (130 Infantry Platoons)
1-3 Vehicle Star(s) (5-15 J-27 Ordinance Transports)

vs
Com Guards' 6th Army + 2 Reinforcement Divisions:
741 BattleMechs
228 Armor
152 Infantry Platoons
312 Aerospace Wings

Edited by Hythos, 04 August 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Daishimax]

The following was copied from Sarna.net:


Settling with five regiments worth of full-time troops as part of a compromise with liberal elements on the First Circuit, Hollings York placed the new ComStar Guards and Milita under the shared control of the Primus and First Circuit. Building his military around the core of the now disbanded Bandersnatches and outfitted from ComStar's SLDF stockpiles, York tapped the vast resources of ROM to fund its creation as well as convincing the First Circuit to approve millions of C-Bills to transform the Sandhurst Royal Military College from a ROM training school back into a full military academy again. Upon publicly announcing the formation of the branch to the stunned House Lords, York took great pains to convince them the ComStar Guards would be a light infantry force trained only for defensive purposes and stationed strictly on Terra. ^[1] In truth York set in motion the creation of the most powerful military since the collapse of the Star League, featuring extensive BattleMech, Combat Vehicle and AeroSpace Fighter support bolstered by the construction and refurbishment of WarShips, by that point extinct in all Successor State navies. ^[2]

[Gyrok]

Hillslam, on 06 November 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Clan wolf won.

The other clans lost, so if any throwing were done it was by them. Not likely though eh?

So I see how its conceivable ComStar could have hidden the mechs for centuries. I'm just having a hard time buying into that thousands of comguard pilots/mechwarriors were able to keep their existance a secret for so long. That many mouths someone's going to blab.

I can see how if the ComGuards trained on sims and the battle plan was from the outset one of attrittion and trading comguard bodies for clan bodies then the battle could be won.

Do we know the actual numbers involved? In terms of individuals? Like are we talked tens of thousands of comguard mechs vs thousands of clan mechs? Over the entire battle? Or are we just talked many hundreds?

Did ComStar drain all their HPG stations of guards prior to this battle? If so how'd they ferry them all to Tukyyid without all the houses wondering wtf? How'd they ferry them at all? ComStar had Jumpships?

This is all very interesting and fun to speculate and talk about. Fascinating stuff. Some of the best lore in Sci Fi.

Well, 25 galaxies were bid down to 21 galaxies of the clans, versus 144 regiments of the ComGuards.

If you consider each galaxy is minimum 2-3 clusters, with roughly 3 trinaries each, that ends up being ~1,000 clansmen versus 144 regiments of ComGuards...

You get the idea how outnumbered they were at this point I assume?

[CyclonerM]

Looks like this thread has run its course. See you all on Tukayyid!

CyclonerM,
Volunteer Moderator

Edited by CyclonerM, 25 April 2015 - 06:05 AM.