36 replies to this topic

[Captain Stiffy]

Also... MG's have way better than 90m ranges.

I challenge anyone on earth or anywhere governed by the same physical laws as earth ... to build a machinegun THAT large of a calibur that only has an effective range of 90m... where that effective range is the FIRST 90 meters! The bullets actually need like 90m on those big guns to get up speed!

MG's are such a filthy mess in battletech in general. MWO has the chance to make it right.

It's not even physically possible to build such a weapon. If it flashed like that then half the round would be tracer phosphorous and that wouldn't make any sense in a military scenario.

[stjobe]

Captain Stiffy, on 07 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

The bullets actually need like 90m on those big guns to get up speed!

A common enough misconception, but the bullet stops accelerating before it leaves the barrel, since what is accelerating it is the explosion of gunpowder that increases the pressure behind the bullet; once the bullet leaves the barrel, the only force acting on it is gravity (and to some degree, wind).

Edited by stjobe, 07 November 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Man this **** gets REALLY complex. You can get into all kinds of physics and math and stuff. (stuff)

http://library.med.u...NS/GUNBLST.html

I just want them to tone down the insane muzzle flash 1/3 of the screen blocked is not good.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 07 November 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[Masterzinja]

Aren't Battlemechs supposed to have flash supressive cockpit technology anyway? I've read about it in many of the books over the years, and I don't understand why I have to get blinded when I'm firing the MGs in my Shadowhawk.

[Wispsy]

Masterzinja, on 07 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Aren't Battlemechs supposed to have flash supressive cockpit technology anyway? I've read about it in many of the books over the years, and I don't understand why I have to get blinded when I'm firing the MGs in my Shadowhawk.

Did you also read that they go nuclear when they get shot? I think the thing with the machine guns is you have a couple of machine guns placed RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR HEAD whilst looking like they are bigger then your cockpit...

I am not against no flash but...if they are going to have flash then it is going to be like this...

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 07 November 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Did you also read that they go nuclear when they get shot? I think the thing with the machine guns is you have a couple of machine guns placed RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR HEAD whilst looking like they are bigger then your cockpit...

I am not against no flash but...if they are going to have flash then it is going to be like this...

I'm listening!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 November 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

I'm waiting!

Oh god no it would be horrible and it only happened in the books because stackpole does not understand physics :/

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 07 November 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Oh god no it would be horrible and it only happened in the books because stackpole does not understand physics :/

Right, flipping burgers got it!

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Right, flipping burgers got it!

<---confused.

[Strum Wealh]

Masterzinja, on 07 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Aren't Battlemechs supposed to have flash supressive cockpit technology anyway? I've read about it in many of the books over the years, and I don't understand why I have to get blinded when I'm firing the MGs in my Shadowhawk.

IIRC, it's more that they have a form of photochromic technology built into the cockpit windows, so that a stray laser blast (that doesn't actually penetrate the cockpit) doesn't blind the MechWarrior.

But, yeah - the MG muzzle flash is rather excessive.

[Roosterfish]

Muzzle flash would depend on what they were using as propellant. Today we already have flashless/smokeless rounds.

[Barantor]

stjobe, on 07 November 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

A common enough misconception, but the bullet stops accelerating before it leaves the barrel, since what is accelerating it is the explosion of gunpowder that increases the pressure behind the bullet; once the bullet leaves the barrel, the only force acting on it is gravity (and to some degree, wind).

StJobe actually understands the process.

Those of you linking .50 M2s and SAWs are way under caliber for BT....

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

Quote

[color=#000000]These weapons are much heavier than those typically carried by infantry, but can be used by them when placed on a static mount, where they are called [/color]Support Machine Guns[color=#000000].[/color]

Gotta think more small cannon and less squad infantry weapon.

AC/2s are 25mm and up according to sarna...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC/2

So if we come down from that we get a 20mm cannon more like this which in BT would be a "machine gun".


90m might be the effective range it still has the velocity to defeat Battlemech and tank armor, BT is weird with ranges on things though.

Just stop with the MGs in MWO being .50 cal M2s though.... and an M249 SAW fires the same round as an infantry rifle.....

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Captain Stiffy, on 07 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Also... MG's have way better than 90m ranges.

I challenge anyone on earth or anywhere governed by the same physical laws as earth ... to build a machinegun THAT large of a calibur that only has an effective range of 90m... where that effective range is the FIRST 90 meters! The bullets actually need like 90m on those big guns to get up speed!

MG's are such a filthy mess in battletech in general. MWO has the chance to make it right.

It's not even physically possible to build such a weapon. If it flashed like that then half the round would be tracer phosphorous and that wouldn't make any sense in a military scenario.

Lorewise it's a bit confusing, but MG's are still underwhelming also in MWO. And it could be argued that the ranges we have is only the effective range versus BattleMech armor to do damage, not necessarily their actual range I hope, either way MGs need some attention.




And I checked out this thread again that has some fine work, and go to thinking how big the guns are compared to the pilots (the model is ~2 meters tall) so I got to thinking about the LCT-1V with's its MGs. Here is an example:

Spoiler

With the flash, it should be fine if it's just replaced with smoke effects instead.


And s'more dakka









edit: added another video

Edited by Praetor Shepard, 07 November 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Really the Dev. team is looking at max range damage for ballistic, and ballistic downward curve at max range. As you know as a bullet fly's trough the air It meets air resistance and gravity takes hold forcing the bullet to curve downwards. Once its at its max range you should see a more damage drop off and a faster downward slop this forces you to make sighting corrections or walk the fire into the target. Right now its a point and shoot kind of thing and the damage doesn't reflect the long range.

[Captain Stiffy]

Barantor, on 07 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

StJobe actually understands the process.

Those of you linking .50 M2s and SAWs are way under caliber for BT....

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun


Gotta think more small cannon and less squad infantry weapon.

AC/2s are 25mm and up according to sarna...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC/2

So if we come down from that we get a 20mm cannon more like this which in BT would be a "machine gun".


90m might be the effective range it still has the velocity to defeat Battlemech and tank armor, BT is weird with ranges on things though.

Just stop with the MGs in MWO being .50 cal M2s though.... and an M249 SAW fires the same round as an infantry rifle.....

LOL the camera is RIGHT NEXT TO THE GUN and it doesn't even see the flash. There is no flash. None.

[Joseph Mallan]

Praetor Shepard, on 07 November 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Lorewise it's a bit confusing, but MG's are still underwhelming also in MWO. And it could be argued that the ranges we have is only the effective range versus BattleMech armor to do damage, not necessarily their actual range I hope, either way MGs need some attention.




And I checked out this thread again that has some fine work, and go to thinking how big the guns are compared to the pilots (the model is ~2 meters tall) so I got to thinking about the LCT-1V with's its MGs. Here is an example:

Spoiler

With the flash, it should be fine if it's just replaced with smoke effects instead.


And s'more dakka









edit: added another video

All smoke little flash with all the videos!

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

All smoke little flash with all the videos!

The Goalkeeper has a flare for some reason. 2nd video and this one too:



Then this test shows a flare on the side too.




And I'm fine with having MG's with smoke though, with maybe intermittent flashes after sustained fire, if some flare is here to stay.

But the main thing is that MG's mounted on mechs are not the same MG's that soldiers would be carrying as suggested in the OP.