12 replies to this topic

[Carrioncrows]

After extensively testing the seismic change I can now say definitively:

Remove it from game, refund GXP.

So many places on the map that are never used because of the cursed seismic sensor.

Maps now run on rails. Everyone always goes the same way, the same paths, the only thing that's different is the gunner skill of the pilots all because other paths are pointless because they have seismic and can see you coming.

The time it takes to zero out the throttle is nothing, that's a anchor turn.

Must drive your map designers nuts to have all these nice paths and quirks only to never be used because seismic renders them pointless.



If a feature limits options instead of expanding them, then it's a bad idea and seismic is one of the worst.

[NuclearPanda]

How does Seismic exactly limit what direction I'll go on a map? I'm just curious.

[ShinVector]

I agreed Siesmic should be removed !!!

[Kymlaar]

People almost always go on rails, it's true, but it was the case long before seismic. And it changes sometimes, which results in some interesting battles.

As for the seismic patch:

I'm fine with the intent of the seismic patch, but I wish it had been done differently. I don't feel that it was overpowered previously, I more felt that the other modules are considerably underpowered. Modules are supposed to be a method of customization, but neither I nor my friends care at all about getting Master levels to get the extra module slot. That tells me that modules are underpowered, and should be improved in some way.

I would also like it if the mech experience wasn't used to completely fill out a tree, but instead allowed someone to personalize by unlocking a few of the items and not all. I suppose that sort of thing was originally going to be more in the pilot tree than the mech tree, but the original ideas for the pilot tree kind of died off since beta/pre-beta days.

Edited by Kymlaar, 06 November 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

NuclearPanda, on 06 November 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

How does Seismic exactly limit what direction I'll go on a map? I'm just curious.

Ice cave on Frozen city (Both versions) - A big no go. They can see you coming and be setup before you even get close.
Waterfall Cave on Forest colony (both versions) - Same situation as above.
Crimson Straight. Can see if the are going under tunnel or the pass and be setup.
Canyon. Never a need to expose yourself you can see exactly who is around that bend, or on the other side.
ect, ect.

There is almost no mystery anymore. Trying to flank, or be sneaky is all but impossible even with the over powered ECM.

Seismic was a bad idea from the get go and continuous to limit options.

Honestly their whole approach to EW warfare needs a massive revamp, but for now, Seismic is a critical issue for me.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 07 November 2013 - 04:56 AM.

[Zolaz]

Sorry CarrionCrows ... no need to remove Seismic Sensor from the game. There is no fixing stupid. That is a greater problem for your team than a module.

Edited by Zolaz, 06 November 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[ShinVector]

Zolaz, on 06 November 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Sorry CarrionCrows ... no need to remove Seismic Sensor from the game. There is no fixing stupid. That is greater problem for your team than a module.

Easy mode situational awareness "Seismic" should be removed so, nobody has the usage advantage over the other. Be it a light mech or the Assault.

[Carrioncrows]

Zolaz, on 06 November 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Sorry CarrionCrows ... no need to remove Seismic Sensor from the game. There is no fixing stupid. That is a greater problem for your team than a module.

Pugs may be on rails true, but they are conditioned that way.

Because every time they went 'Said' way they were obliterated time and time again. But event the experienced players, the 4 and 12 mans will never go those routes simply because of seismic.

[NuclearPanda]

Carrioncrows, on 07 November 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Pugs may be on rails true, but they are conditioned that way.

Because every time they went 'Said' way they were obliterated time and time again. But event the experienced players, the 4 and 12 mans will never go those routes simply because of seismic.

I dont know man, I frequently drop 4 mans and we almost ALWAYS cave rush to great effect. I'd say our success rate is at least 75% running through them. *shrugs*

Seismic or no, I'm rushing caves!

[John MatriX82]

Carrioncrows, on 07 November 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Pugs may be on rails true, but they are conditioned that way.

Because every time they went 'Said' way they were obliterated time and time again. But event the experienced players, the 4 and 12 mans will never go those routes simply because of seismic.

Hmm not entirely man, many maps have obliged strategies and areas. Leave them to the enemy or skip to defend them appropriately and you're doomed.

Take the mountain pass on Crimson. You must hold it. Not the platform, the pass. Those who go "the other routes" or those who hold the platform without pushing the pass, are crushed seismic or not. Because if you were on the platform and you're forced to go under it, you're done; if you go tunnel from the beginning you're done too, because you're under your enemy.

Also flanking in general is "dead". This because of the new 12 vs 12. In 8 vs 8 you could try to flank alone, hit someone who was lagging behind the main group.. now you have the probability to run in 2-3-4 or more mechs already there to hinder your flanking potential. And given the short seismic sensor detection range, imho that module isn't the problem, or it simply hinders your brawl-flanking capability (read: you're trying to change a push front of a brawling line between the two enemy groups not making wide/far maneuvers).

Actually the seismic should have been implemented like an ITEM as the BAP is, not a module or certain modules like this should require TWO slots rather than only one like it is now.

Until then, the fact that you need to stand still and that the range is limited to 250m aren't making it as op as it was before when you had a 400m worth wallhack; it's still useful, but for people like me that rarely stand still even while sniping its effectiveness has reduced quite a bit.

Edited by John MatriX82, 07 November 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

John MatriX82, on 07 November 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

Hmm not entirely man, many maps have obliged strategies and areas. Leave them to the enemy or skip to defend them appropriately and you're doomed.

Take the mountain pass on Crimson. You must hold it. Not the platform, the pass. Those who go "the other routes" or those who hold the platform without pushing the pass, are crushed seismic or not. Because if you were on the platform and you're forced to go under it, you're done; if you go tunnel from the beginning you're done too, because you're under your enemy.

Also flanking in general is "dead". This because of the new 12 vs 12. In 8 vs 8 you could try to flank alone, hit someone who was lagging behind the main group.. now you have the probability to run in 2-3-4 or more mechs already there to hinder your flanking potential. And given the short seismic sensor detection range, imho that module isn't the problem, or it simply hinders your brawl-flanking capability (read: you're trying to change a push front of a brawling line between the two enemy groups not making wide/far maneuvers).

Actually the seismic should have been implemented like an ITEM as the BAP is, not a module or certain modules like this should require TWO slots rather than only one like it is now.

Until then, the fact that you need to stand still and that the range is limited to 250m aren't making it as op as it was before when you had a 400m worth wallhack; it's still useful, but for people like me that rarely stand still even while sniping its effectiveness has reduced quite a bit.

All the sneakyness, all the skill, all the tactical doctrine, all of the planning, is mitigated by a person ont he other team taking 1/2 a second to pause and see if anyone is on the other side. It's absurd.

Now I would be ok if they made it so seismic would only detect mechs going 75% of their maximum kph or more.

That way someone trying to be sneaky could still creep at 74% maximum kph or less and avoid the seismic to sneak up on a targets unaware.

But that might be more trouble programming than it's worth and removal of SS is simpler and fixes the issue today.

The idea is to EXPAND Gameplay, not limit it.

[NuclearPanda]

I agree the D5 pass area on Crimson needs to be held. Way too many people either go tunnel or just sit on top of the platform.

[John MatriX82]

Carrioncrows, on 07 November 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

All the sneakyness, all the skill, all the tactical doctrine, all of the planning, is mitigated by a person ont he other team taking 1/2 a second to pause and see if anyone is on the other side. It's absurd.

Now I would be ok if they made it so seismic would only detect mechs going 75% of their maximum kph or more.

That way someone trying to be sneaky could still creep at 74% maximum kph or less and avoid the seismic to sneak up on a targets unaware.

But that might be more trouble programming than it's worth and removal of SS is simpler and fixes the issue today.

The idea is to EXPAND Gameplay, not limit it.

Probably the range could get crippled again.
However this game has become extremely obliged anyway, that of the seismic is just the tip of the issues it faces, I share your pain, but for me the greatest issue isn't the seismic, it's the hardpoint system (they should be limited) in order to get rid of the ghost heat and to improve variant differentiation and different builds usage.

Since CB this game has only seen nerfing, it didn't evolved. Movement has been nerfed (movement archetypes introduction), lrms, srms, gr, ppcs, all energy weapons through heat penalty and so on.. you did a great job along with several of us in finally making PGI understand that hitboxes (and hopefully scaling/dimensions) are important, now the next step imho it's the hardpoint system, and after that rethinking heat and DHSs.

The seismic right now it's not OP as it was before; like what happened with the ECM issues, it's still there, it can still be "op" but not to the huge level issues we had months ago or like back when the seismic had 400m range. Imho of course