5 replies to this topic

[GRiPSViGiL]

So I was thinking about some ways that ECM could be countered/destroyed and it expanded into something a little more intuitive.

I think they should bring about some sort of EMP weapons that would only target enhancement systems like ECM, BAP, AMS, Narc, and Tag, as well as the command module. Assuming the command module will be a factor in commanding at some point. By target I mean destroy them outright making them unusable for that match.

Now since BT lore has EMP mines perhaps something can be conjured up that doesn't deviate to far from that lore. Now I know these mines were able to disable a mech without doing any damage to them but I don't think we can have any stuns allowed in this game as fast as focus firing can take one down. So that will be the main deviation from lore. Instead we keep it the items I described above only.

I suggest these in the form of a module slot in 3 different forms for variety of use.

EMP Mine - 3 mines to lay for defensive purposes or along known enemy traverse points. Passive system that requires the enemy to walk over them but can be destroyed. Detonation occurs within 15M radius.

EMP blast wave - 1 short wave blast charge that encompasses a 45 degree cone of fire 30m out from the front of the equipped mech. The short distance and frontal exposure requires great risk to deploy.

EMP grenade launcher - 2 grenades with a range of 50M can be fired from the launcher in a slow lobbing arc. Short distance requires a good amount of risk to use.

Now with issues where mechs have more than 1 enhancement device then it should roll like a crit does and destroy the component it lands on. In other words it would destroy only one random component.

I envision this to be something light mechs could take advantage of adding depth to their role as well as making the information war more intuitive by allowing complete disable of enhancement systems.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 07 November 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[FinsT]

In principle, could be a good thing, yes.

I agree something must be done with ECM, which is currently too effective against LRMs and SSRMs. I've been sharing some ideas about it several days ago.

In practice, EMP weapons would be difficult to balance, though. What if i put one (any) of those things on a light mech, running some 150+ kPh and with ECM myself, and then have a few friends in assault-class missile boats? Result: we can kill any group i am able to get close to, except groups with 2+ DDCs (assuming i'd also drop NARC on 'em targets), if i am a good light pilot and keep running full-speed and not in straight lines at all times (therefore being very hard to hit no matter the range). Additional fast spotter at the distance (some 170+ kPh) would put the nail in the coffin. Counters to the tactic? ... ... half the enemy team being SSRM boats? How often does that happen? More likely, the most efficient counter would be to use very same tactic: lights with EMPs and missile boats - and then it'll be "who will LRM down enemy's big guys faster", i guess. Make no mistake - we don't see armies of LRM boats nowadays only because of ECM; otherwise, spotter+LRM_boats is exceedingly powerful (the only weapon able to hit things which are out of direct LoS of the shoting person, and up to 1000 meters away - its very nature is OP if there is no effective counter to it; which ECM is, but at the moment, it's quite "too" effective", with that).

Therefore it will definitely be required to make the effect of anti-ECM modules to be _temporary_, and the balance will be to find "right" amount of time for each module to work (per application). This might be difficult because this kind of balance is making _both_ sides unhappy - since anti-ECM users will sure want longer duration, and thus will be unhappy with any duration which significantly limits the efficiency of proposed modules; on the other side, happy ECM owners will sure want shorter duration for proposed modules, and will be unhappy with any duration which significantly reduces ECM efficiency. "Right" balance would indeed significantly limit both sides (otherwise one or other side would become "OP"), - and therefore, both sides would be quite unhappy. I don't think PGI wants unhappy players...

See, it's difficult. ><

P.S. Note how things which have very limited duration (or, very limited uses) which are already in the game, - namely UAV, coolshots and air/art strikes, - are all 1) expendables, means relatively few players use them, and 2) are quite or even completely concealed from the opposing side (UAV is not any easy to notice, coolshots are pretty much invisible to the enemy, and strikes are difficult, if at all possible, to "personify" the source of - i.e. potential victims usually have no idea who, and from where, ordered the strike they are being hit with). I guess this is how PGI avoids to have two sides being unhappy about "too good" / "too weak" thing described above - at worst, only the users are being unhappy, but not victims; and users at least have a choice of whether to use these features, or not to use - because none of those are any massively "game-changing" (and EMP weapons with permanent effects would probably be).

Edited by FinsT, 07 November 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Scromboid]

Mines all on their own would be cool. Load a few tonnes up in a troll-mando... hoof it around Tourmaline... lay some presents like the Easter Bunny.... yeaaaahh...

[GRiPSViGiL]

FinsT, on 07 November 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

In principle, could be a good thing, yes.

I agree something must be done with ECM, which is currently too effective against LRMs and SSRMs. I've been sharing some ideas about it several days ago.

In practice, EMP weapons would be difficult to balance, though. What if i put one (any) of those things on a light mech, running some 150+ kPh and with ECM myself, and then have a few friends in assault-class missile boats? Result: we can kill any group i am able to get close to, except groups with 2+ DDCs (assuming i'd also drop NARC on 'em targets), if i am a good light pilot and keep running full-speed and not in straight lines at all times (therefore being very hard to hit no matter the range). Additional fast spotter at the distance (some 170+ kPh) would put the nail in the coffin. Counters to the tactic? ... ... half the enemy team being SSRM boats? How often does that happen? More likely, the most efficient counter would be to use very same tactic: lights with EMPs and missile boats - and then it'll be "who will LRM down enemy's big guys faster", i guess. Make no mistake - we don't see armies of LRM boats nowadays only because of ECM; otherwise, spotter+LRM_boats is exceedingly powerful (the only weapon able to hit things which are out of direct LoS of the shoting person, and up to 1000 meters away - its very nature is OP if there is no effective counter to it; which ECM is, but at the moment, it's quite "too" effective", with that).

Therefore it will definitely be required to make the effect of anti-ECM modules to be _temporary_, and the balance will be to find "right" amount of time for each module to work (per application). This might be difficult because this kind of balance is making _both_ sides unhappy - since anti-ECM users will sure want longer duration, and thus will be unhappy with any duration which significantly limits the efficiency of proposed modules; on the other side, happy ECM owners will sure want shorter duration for proposed modules, and will be unhappy with any duration which significantly reduces ECM efficiency. "Right" balance would indeed significantly limit both sides (otherwise one or other side would become "OP"), - and therefore, both sides would be quite unhappy. I don't think PGI wants unhappy players...

See, it's difficult. ><

P.S. Note how things which have very limited duration (or, very limited uses) which are already in the game, - namely UAV, coolshots and air/art strikes, - are all 1) expendables, means relatively few players use them, and 2) are quite or even completely concealed from the opposing side (UAV is not any easy to notice, coolshots are pretty much invisible to the enemy, and strikes are difficult, if at all possible, to "personify" the source of - i.e. potential victims usually have no idea who, and from where, ordered the strike they are being hit with). I guess this is how PGI avoids to have two sides being unhappy about "too good" / "too weak" thing described above - at worst, only the users are being unhappy, but not victims; and users at least have a choice of whether to use these features, or not to use - because none of those are any massively "game-changing" (and EMP weapons with permanent effects would probably be).

I think the balance of what I suggest lies in the fact that an EMP weapon will only destroy one of the enhancement systems that will not always end up being an ECM. I need to add AMS to that list as well. So it is not a 100% ECM counter and it requires very close proximity to the target.

I don't think this would allow a light and an LRM boat to decimate a team or even one target as you suggest. The light will have to expose himself at a very close range and in 12 man's that can be a death sentence in a blink of an eye. I don't care how good a light pilot anyone thinks they are or is I have seen our 12 drop lights on first site. There are plenty of other groups out there that do the same.

Using these weapons would be very high risk. LRMs are rare in 12 man drops and it is directly due to ECM. This could allow for some tactics and variations in that meta. PPCs disabling ECM for a short period of time has not allowed that currently.

I think this idea can be balanced in the end.

[GRiPSViGiL]

I swore this woulda got more attention.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Really?!