18 replies to this topic

[MarauderAlphaTango]

Hi All.

Ever since the new heat dissipation and the increase in heat for the ppc and the large laser I have been unsure of what to take. It seems that I always run out of slots to put heatsinks in before I run out of weight. I have tried a few different builds but cannot find one that will consistently do damage. I am hoping to find some advice on what people have done recently with their stalkers that will not constantly overheat. Does anyone have some good advice for me?

[Escef]

Have you considered upping your engine size? Not only can a big engine hold more heat sinks, it will make your Death Phallus more nimble.

[Wintersdark]

Before going any further, I have to ask: Do you understand how ghost heat works?

Mind you, I mean no insult here; it's a legitimate, honest question as I don't know you at all.

[DrSlamastika]

I drive 3F with:

STD 310
6x MEDIUM LASER
4x SRM 6 + ARTEMIS (7T)
15 DBL HS
AMS

A little bit hot, but if you can manage your guns, you can do good result.
( Dont forget open your missile doors before fight )

Edited by DrSlamastika, 10 November 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[MarauderAlphaTango]

Wintersdark, on 10 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Before going any further, I have to ask: Do you understand how ghost heat works?

Mind you, I mean no insult here; it's a legitimate, honest question as I don't know you at all.

Just so I am clear? what are you referring to as ghost heat? I am unfamiliar with the term. I am familiar with heat penalties from grouping weapons and the cost of firing, is there other items I should take into consideration?

[Wintersdark]

MarauderAlphaTango, on 10 November 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Just so I am clear? what are you referring to as ghost heat? I am unfamiliar with the term. I am familiar with heat penalties from grouping weapons and the cost of firing, is there other items I should take into consideration?

Yeah, ghost heat is the additional heat generated by firing multiple weapons of the same group (say, firing 2 Large Lasers and a Large Pulse Laser together generates more heat than firing them individually does). Needed to make sure, because energy heavy stalker pilots need to fully understand how it works and how best to work around it or else you'll run far, far hotter than you should with a given weapons load.

The build I use on my 3F right now is very simple: STK-3F

4LL, in two groups. 24 DHS, so you have fire continuously for 41s without overheating. Don't do that stupid 2 groups of 2 LL's both on chainfire, though, just fire pairs. If you want to be able to fire single LL's Just In Case; put all 4 into a third weapon group on chainfire.

Alternatively, you can drop 2 side torso DHS and move down to a STD300 engine, then use that space to pack in a couple SRM's - and ideally move two LL's into the side torsos as well, so you've got more firepower if your arms get clipped. 22DHS is still an extremely effective cooling load. The reality though is that 4LL's have plenty of power if you focus your fire. You can shear off a side torso and cripple an enemy mech fairly effortlessly.

[MarauderAlphaTango]

DrSlamastika, on 10 November 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

I drive 3F with:

STD 310
6x MEDIUM LASER
4x SRM 6 + ARTEMIS (7T)
15 DBL HS
AMS

A little bit hot, but if you can manage your guns, you can do good result.
( Dont forget open your missile doors before fight )

OK, my most current version is similar, but a tad slower I find that I still have heat issues with more heatsinks even on the cooler maps and either have to use missles or lasers.. not both.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c98bf673296150b

Other problem is that a hilly map will keep me out of the fight so I cannot get in to kill. I have to be in the enemy's face and yet a map like mordor is so hard for me to get into combat.

Edited by MarauderAlphaTango, 10 November 2013 - 04:58 PM.

[MarauderAlphaTango]

Wintersdark, on 10 November 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

The build I use on my 3F right now is very simple: STK-3F

Thanks a lot, I have tried this in the past but only with the 300 engine never a 310, and always ERLL instead. Really I wish it had ballistic slots like the misery but what can you do. It is also really nice to see a build that is not at 23% heat efficiency. I guess I will try this again and see if the extra speed makes a difference.

Quick question though, you don't find the lack of an AMS to be a problem?

[DrSlamastika]

Its not very good idea put an ammo into head or ceter torso. It can kill you with some lucky shot

[DrSlamastika]

Wintersdark, on 10 November 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

The build I use on my 3F right now is very simple: STK-3F

I have almost same setup on my beloved Misery: 4xLL + Gauss gun, but slower engine.
For me its the best mech from all . . .

Edited by DrSlamastika, 10 November 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[MarauderAlphaTango]

DrSlamastika, on 10 November 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Its not very good idea put an ammo into head or ceter torso. It can kill you with some lucky shot

In theory yes.. but the number of times that it has actually happened, it is worth the risk. Plus ammo is used from top down so head first then CT and then legs. Less ammo in areas that is being shot at is a plus. I also find that most people go CT for the kill or R/L torso so that also means that once my CT is gone so is my engine, whereas if I lose my R/LT I lose weapons. It is a calculated risk.

[MarauderAlphaTango]

DrSlamastika, on 10 November 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I have almost same setup on my beloved Misery: 4xLL + Gauss gun, but slower engine.
For me its the best mech from all . . .

My 3F would be unstoppable with a AC10 or even a 5. It would be the end of heat issues. But it was not meant to be.

[DrSlamastika]

It was just advice but the ammo dont spend from up to down. For example, If you put ammo into same hand like gun it will be depleted sooner then in head. . . It goes from near spot to the gun. Not from up to down .

[TercieI]

DrSlamastika, on 10 November 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

It was just advice but the ammo dont spend from up to down. For example, If you put ammo into same hand like gun it will be depleted sooner then in head. . . It goes from near spot to the gun. Not from up to down .

That's not true.

Ammo is always used in this order: HD, CT, RST, LST, LA, RA, LL, RL.

Edited by Terciel1976, 10 November 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[DrSlamastika]

really? I was informed that go from near spot to far. . .but maybe is untrue. . .

[Kubernetes]

I tend to run 300 std, 2ERLL, 4 streaks, and 4ML or 3ML + TAG. Runs like 20 DHS and stamina is fantastic as long as you don't fire alphas all the time. I burn down a town of assaults because they overheat and I don't.

[Wintersdark]

MarauderAlphaTango, on 10 November 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

OK, my most current version is similar, but a tad slower I find that I still have heat issues with more heatsinks even on the cooler maps and either have to use missles or lasers.. not both.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c98bf673296150b

Other problem is that a hilly map will keep me out of the fight so I cannot get in to kill. I have to be in the enemy's face and yet a map like mordor is so hard for me to get into combat.

This sort of build is just not very good right now.

1) It's slow, and short ranged. Mechs simply staying around 400m with large lasers/ppcs/ballistics will destroy you out of hand
2) SRM's are unreliable. Hit reg on them just isn't good, so you tend to lose damage you should have done

MarauderAlphaTango, on 10 November 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Thanks a lot, I have tried this in the past but only with the 300 engine never a 310, and always ERLL instead. Really I wish it had ballistic slots like the misery but what can you do. It is also really nice to see a build that is not at 23% heat efficiency. I guess I will try this again and see if the extra speed makes a difference.

Quick question though, you don't find the lack of an AMS to be a problem?

I don't like ERLL's for this. They generate substantially more heat, and only rarely actually do more damage (that is, only when you're firing at extreme range). Once you're inside the Large Laser's 450m optimal range, the ERLL is generating extra heat for nothing. There can be some value to two ERLL's and 2 LL's, but I'd definitely not use 4 ERLL's.

The lack of AMS isn't really a problem, because LRM's are so easy to avoid/mitigate. Just walking backwards and turning tends to cause a lot to impact the ground in front of you, friendly AMS helps, and it's trivial to use terrain to intercept them. Massed LRM fire can be problematic, of course, but one AMS won't make a big difference either way there.

An option though if you do want it is to pare back a DHS and/or go to a 300 or 305 engine to drop AMS in - pretty easy to manage if you want.

Overall, the key takeaway is this: One Large Laser is more heat efficient in terms of heat per damage done than a pair of medium lasers. 4 Large Lasers does comparable damage to 7-8 medium lasers and generates less heat - and does it at twice the range.

DrSlamastika, on 10 November 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Its not very good idea put an ammo into head or ceter torso. It can kill you with some lucky shot

This is terribly wrong. Your head is the single best place on your mech to put ammo. This is because ammo bins take 10 damage to destroy, and even then only have a 10% chance to explode. The likelyhood of destroying that ammo bin before the head itself takes enough damage to kill you is extremely low, and then you're taking 10% of that chance. Other locations can take a lot more fire before being destroyed (and when destroyed also cause a 10% test for ammo explosion).

[TercieI]

DrSlamastika, on 10 November 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

really? I was informed that go from near spot to far. . .but maybe is untrue. . .

I'm basing of Wadde's guide and numerous comments on forums.

[Wintersdark]

Terciel1976, on 10 November 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'm basing of Wadde's guide and numerous comments on forums.

You're correct, and it can be tested in game using the cockpit displays: They show ammo per location, so you can track how it gets consumed. Any mech with easy-to-see cockpit displays works well here. Hunchbacks are ideal, because they've got so damn many displays