50 replies to this topic

[FerrolupisXIII]

Roadbeer, on 12 November 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I wasn't bagging on you, just some of the follow up posts. You did make some very good points.
On my end, I just PREFER to have it, it's like a security blanket, and it does stack well with modules.
Its usefulness does exceed that of just being a close-range ECM counter. In my LRM builds, BAP goes on before defensive weaponry.

Yeah, formatting is hard. i just try and follow the good rule of separate point? separate paragraph.

BAP is nice if i have the space but i almost always find myself wanting an extra heat sink or ammo or some such. or a bigger engine.

All those other BAP effects can be had with modules. and in my experience if you're near an ECM mech you're either busy trying to swat the spider, you have friends playing swat the spider that have BAP for their streaks, or things have gone VERY wrong and you're face to face with an Atlas D-DC and about to be used as a punching bag.

i would probably use it more in PUG matches but im always with at least one other guy, fortunately

[arghmace]

FerrolupisXIII, on 12 November 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Now, the big one! it counters 1 enemy ECM! within 150m

150m. 30m sorter than ECM's Disrupt range (180m). it is also inside LRM minimum range (180m), so we can not use our primary armament against ECM mechs within range.

i could also choose, when i start countering, to continue with my business of LRMing something else, which leaves my back open to the light mech. taking defensive maneuvers makes it VERY hard to keep an LRM lock up, because you must stay pointed at that target. again, the BAP makes little difference as either im dead or not completing my primary task while im back to waving my lasers at a light.

This is all quite true when pugging but in a coordinated team battle you can keep on lobbing those LRM's at priority targets while your mates take care of the light at your back. Withoug BAP you would be disabled, unable to do any damage for the time being.

[FerrolupisXIII]

arghmace, on 12 November 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

This is all quite true when pugging but in a coordinated team battle you can keep on lobbing those LRM's at priority targets while your mates take care of the light at your back. Withoug BAP you would be disabled, unable to do any damage for the time being.

i rarely find myself in this situation, either one of my friends has BAP/ECM or the light doesn't stay near me with that many guys playing tight, they usually ****** off in search of the proverbial wounded deer.

[Roadbeer]

FerrolupisXIII, on 12 November 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Yeah, formatting is hard. i just try and follow the good rule of separate point? separate paragraph.

BAP is nice if i have the space but i almost always find myself wanting an extra heat sink or ammo or some such. or a bigger engine.

All those other BAP effects can be had with modules. and in my experience if you're near an ECM mech you're either busy trying to swat the spider, you have friends playing swat the spider that have BAP for their streaks, or things have gone VERY wrong and you're face to face with an Atlas D-DC and about to be used as a punching bag.

i would probably use it more in PUG matches but im always with at least one other guy, fortunately

I group exclusively with 1-3 other players, sometimes even with 11 other players and I still find BAP necessary.

As far as space, it fits nicely on the CT (where you can't fit an extra heatsink) or in one of the legs. Yes, it's taking up ammo space, but on the other end, how much ammo do you waste if you DON'T have it?

[Mercules]

FerrolupisXIII, on 12 November 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

at which point, he can carry the BAP for his likely streak based armament.

1.5 tons on anything smaller than 40 tons is a LOT of weight. While some of them will carry ECM every other one of them will likely get a lot more use out of an extra 1.5 tons in armor/engine/ammo/weapons.

BAP also lets you LRM something else while your teammate cleans off the annoying light for you.

[Murphy7]

BAP and Missiles, they just go together.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i find that bap can totally replace a tag on some mechs. its amazing with Artemis fast lock. as for the ecm counter buzzing, godsend. those 30m mean almost nothing, yes you cant shoot lrms at that light, but it doesn't matter you should have back up weapons for that, right? now that light has to find some "sweet spot" to buzz you from more then 150m. so even if a light does buzz you....step back a few steps 30m isn't much if that light is just camping behind a big rock or something.

honestly i never run art without bap, and i almost always use bap with my lrms . keeps them firing.

Edited by Mellifluer, 12 November 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[Sephlock]

I carry BAP on my LRM mechs partly for the lock range, party so I can get target info faster (as a side benefit), but mostly because I need to be able to continually fire at approaching enemy mechs while I am under the influence of ECM.

Generally when that happens, my ENTIRE ******* TEAM has turned around to chase ONE ECM spider that is dancing around our ranks and my LRMs are the only thing keeping the entire rest of the enemy team from thinking it's okay to charge across the open and whoop us (which it is ).

Ideally that should never be an issue, but when pugging... it is.

[FerrolupisXIII]

Sephlock, on 12 November 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

I carry BAP on my LRM mechs partly for the lock range, party so I can get target info faster (as a side benefit), but mostly because I need to be able to continually fire at approaching enemy mechs while I am under the influence of ECM.

Generally when that happens, my ENTIRE ******* TEAM has turned around to chase ONE ECM spider that is dancing around our ranks and my LRMs are the only thing keeping the entire rest of the enemy team from thinking it's okay to charge across the open and whoop us (which it is ).

Ideally that should never be an issue, but when pugging... it is.

Sometimes I wish I could be a comissar. Back on the line you dogs! Deny the enemy! Blam blam blam.

[oldradagast]

I can't really agree with this.

If an ECM light gets close to you and you don't have BAP, you're in for a world of problems as an LRM mech since you won't be able to get locks on further out mechs... leaving you stuck trying to kill the ECM light that's running around near you.

TAG is nice, sure, though my complaint about it is that it forces me to get LOS on target, leaving me more vulnerable to return fire. It's a good aid to LRM's, but I still want BAP too.

[FerrolupisXIII]

if you don't try and kill the ECM light near you and ignore him to LRM other targets, what is that ECM light going to do? say aww shucks he countered my ECM? no. he's going to try and kill you. and if you continue to ignore him, he will do that in a very short amount of time.

i'd rather take action against the light and likely be alive later to LRM stuff, than fire a few more shots and go down to the light.

personal preference of course, but in my case a BAP does me little good. and again, TAG i find extremely helpful. but i don't hid behind rocks and fire on targets other people have found. if you're not in LOS do you also not bring Artemis?

[Mercules]

FerrolupisXIII, on 13 November 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

if you don't try and kill the ECM light near you and ignore him to LRM other targets, what is that ECM light going to do? say aww shucks he countered my ECM? no. he's going to try and kill you. and if you continue to ignore him, he will do that in a very short amount of time.

i'd rather take action against the light and likely be alive later to LRM stuff, than fire a few more shots and go down to the light.

personal preference of course, but in my case a BAP does me little good. and again, TAG i find extremely helpful. but i don't hid behind rocks and fire on targets other people have found. if you're not in LOS do you also not bring Artemis?

Do you know what annoys me when I am in a Light? When I sneak into the backfield and start messing with an LRM mech to take the pressure off my teammates and he just ignores me... I mean... really... ignore me? I am there to disrupt your LRMs and you are going to just keep going while some other teammate turns and fires on me? You mean I can't get two of your chasing me or even make a dent in the LRM coverage? ARGH!

Put BAP on.

[oldradagast]

FerrolupisXIII, on 13 November 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

if you don't try and kill the ECM light near you and ignore him to LRM other targets, what is that ECM light going to do? say aww shucks he countered my ECM? no. he's going to try and kill you. and if you continue to ignore him, he will do that in a very short amount of time.

i'd rather take action against the light and likely be alive later to LRM stuff, than fire a few more shots and go down to the light.

personal preference of course, but in my case a BAP does me little good. and again, TAG i find extremely helpful. but i don't hid behind rocks and fire on targets other people have found. if you're not in LOS do you also not bring Artemis?

Shooting the light and putting missiles are on target are not always mutually exclusive. If things go well, you can still sweep the Light next to you with lasers as he runs around while holding a lock for your missiles. Now, if you're alone in an LRM boat, yeah, he'll just park behind you, but if you're that far away from support with LRM's something has gone wrong, IMHO.

Edited by oldradagast, 15 November 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I carry BAP on all my LRM mechs except lights like locust(dual LRM5 and SLas) and Commando(dual LRM5 SLas and TAG).
Bcuz on most of my LRM mechs I have at least 1SSRM2 next to MLasers so I can keep presure on that light ECM mech until teammates help me.
And if you find AS7-D-DC near you nothing will help ya if you are LRM boat .

[Roadbeer]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 15 November 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

And if you find AS7-D-DC near you nothing will help ya if you are LRM boat .

Except mobility, terrain, situational awareness, teammates, speed, torso twist, or just general good game play... except for those things, nothing will help.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Roadbeer, on 15 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Except mobility, terrain, situational awareness, teammates, speed, torso twist, or just general good game play... except for those things, nothing will help.

Oh yeah it depends on situation AND not being stupid ofc .
But that means if you are good player you will never engage D-DC alone if you are LRM boat .

[Novakaine]

BAP is good.
Novakaine - Dedicated Missile Support.

[Zolaz]

Your right ... LRM mechs never get targeted by ECM mechs. You would never want another LRM boat to be able to rain on those mechs under ECM cover and circling you. *pats OP on the head* It is ok little camper, you will be good at MWO, one day.

[CarpetShark]

I dredged my LRM C4 out of mothballs yesterday for the first time in months.

Mid-way through the match, I was being swarmed by lights. Which were then able to be utterly destroyed by another LRM mech on my team because I was carrying a BAP!

"BAP: Don't try LRM without it!"

[FerrolupisXIII]

Zolaz, on 16 November 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Your right ... LRM mechs never get targeted by ECM mechs. You would never want another LRM boat to be able to rain on those mechs under ECM cover and circling you. *pats OP on the head* It is ok little camper, you will be good at MWO, one day.

no need to be insulting. LRM's aren't very effective at hitting lights, so you'll probably still die anyways, or you have friends to drive it off. if its an atlas you've majorly screwed up and need to just run like frak, not counter him with your BAP. your friendly LRM boat should have a TAG and be able to gain a lock himself.

CarpetShark, on 16 November 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

I dredged my LRM C4 out of mothballs yesterday for the first time in months.

Mid-way through the match, I was being swarmed by lights. Which were then able to be utterly destroyed by another LRM mech on my team because I was carrying a BAP!

"BAP: Don't try LRM without it!"

I'm surprised that a single LRM boat saved you from a swarm of lights. you are also lucky that there was not more than one ECM light. what were you doing so far from teammates that only another LRM mech could help? i did state some opinions about how i prefer to deal with lights anyways, so just "Bap counters ecm lights, duh!" has already been discussed here. it doesn't do a good job at it, and you should be getting help from all your teammates, not just one other guy with LRMs.