8 replies to this topic

[John Clavell]

In MechWarrior 4 small lasers and such where pretty pointless. There was no real effective minimum ranges, meaning long range weapons were as effective in close range as much as their effective ranges. This made the traditional close range weapons pointless.

I'd really like to see smaller, close range weapons be more effective close in. Forcing people to not boat weapons so much. Also things like PPC splash. Any other ideas how to bring small lasers and such back into fold in an effective way?

[Cake Bandit]

I always figured the trade-off for short range weapons was heat, and tonnage. Sure the big guns work up close, but they usually take a long time to recover for another salvo.

[Xhaleon]

Yep. In MW4, you already had perfectly lined up shots of all your weapons, so using a bunch of medium lasers in your free slots could be a better option than stuffing in more heat sinks, ironically just like the tabletop. Just fire them instead of the large weapon and you'll start racking up more damage in time.

On the other hand, I always configured mechs to fit their visual appearance, so I always ended up with unoptimized designs anyway...
A small little hole in the side of the mech? Gotta stuff a small laser in there and give it its own fire group...

[Amechwarrior]

I would love to see minimum ranges implemented, tell player in training that it will impact off the reticle - further off-center the closer you get to point blank, and train them to use short ranged weapons in short range and only to use long weapons at appropriate ranges. As for giving small weapons some incentive that is not just "Up the damage!", I made a long post about that here in a thread that was about armor penetration. To sum it up, small weapons on the TT were used more for crit finders then damage dealers, so to make them useful give them a higher chance to have that lucky "2" and get a through armor critical. Yes, this is counter intuitive, but it makes small weapons worth something, which is more then they had in MW4.

[Adridos]

MInimum ranges are good as long as there are both urban and open field maps, because in a game with just big plains close range weapons are pointless, wile if there are only urban maps, there isn't a way to use long range weapons. I like it, but it will force people to make half of their weaponry pointless (if you can't choose which map to play on).

[CaveMan]

1) Take away LRM lock-on inside 180m so they tend to fly over the target's head. Put a big X over the gunsight like in real-world fighter plane HUDs to warn the player.

2) A 'Mech that moves 10 km/h laterally to you at a range of 90 meters is moving 1.8 degrees/second relative to your gunsight. At 30 meters' range 10 km/h is 5.4 deg/sec. At 210m, the optimum range of a Gauss rifle, a 'Mech moving 100 km/h (the biggest movement modifier in the board game) is moving about 7.5 deg/sec. Limit the torso twist rate on heavier 'Mechs and weapon traverse/convergence rate of long-range weapons so that 10 deg/sec is about the limit for a 100 ton 'Mech aiming a long-range gun. For a 20-ton 'Mech I'd say it should be about 30 deg/sec for the torso, with other tonnages interpolated between the two.

Weapons would traverse (independently from the torso) at a rate as follows:

Small Laser, Med Laser, Machine Gun, Flamer: 30 deg/sec
AC/20: 20 deg/sec
Large Laser, AC/10: 15 deg/sec
PPC, AC/5: 12 deg/sec
AC/2, Gauss Rifle: 10 deg/sec

Yes, that's painfully slow compared to previous MW games, but these are 100-ton robots we're talking about here so the upper torso might be carrying 70+ tons. That's a fuckton of mass to be moving around, given that you don't allocate any of the 'Mech's weight to torso actuators.
Furthermore, it's not totally unrealistic. The turret of a 45-ton T-72 tank takes 21 seconds to rotate a full 360 degrees. That's 17 deg/sec, or less than twice what I'm proposing for the heaviest 'Mechs with the longest-range guns. (Modern tanks are much faster, about 60 deg/sec, but for the purposes of game design the slower speed makes more sense.)

[Cyttorak]

Totally agree with OP. Min range is just as much a part of weapon selection and play as max range, and should definitely be reflected in what the devs give us.

[Woodstock]

I was reading Warrior En Garde recently and there is a scene when Allard triggers his LRM's within the minimum range. They don't arm ...but still do minor damage.

It made me think about when light mechs get in close against the big boys and circle then they will all be well within the minimum range of weapons like LRM's and PPC's.

Implementing minimum ranges will be another way that light mechs can stay viable.

Even if its just a massive damage reduction effect.

[vasile]

Yes I see your pont. But since only mechs are going to be on the game small weapons face another problem, because they are meant to deal with tanks and other enemies, not mechs. I would like to see a rol for the small weapons I just do not see which.