16 replies to this topic

[Imawuss]

Problem:
With the current development rate this game will be a ghost town before any content of worth such as CW comes out. slow content=Less players = less revenue=less employees=slower content. It's a viscouse cycle that we are now on and PGI needs to do something to fix it.

Solution:
1. Keep on the same path, risk the game failling due to insuffcient content.

or

2. Change your model and make a new rode. Open up your game, allow players to create content, such as maps, skins, etc. Larger projects could be "crowd funded" in such a way. Charge a comminsion on player created content. Steam/Valve has already explored this and it is working out very well for them.
Benefits: players become developers creating content for you not only free but in a way that generates income for all. More content= happier playerbase.

I could go into more complete detail, but i doubt PGI will read this so my effort and detail in this already suggested system matches their effort to communicate. But honestly with how small this PGI team is, i feel this is their only real solution. Sadly it would be extremely profitable to do so but some business simply refuse to adapt and will die accordingly.

[DEN_Ninja]

Imawuss, on 15 November 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Problem:
With the current development rate this game will be a ghost town before any content of worth such as CW comes out. slow content=Less players = less revenue=less employees=slower content. It's a viscouse cycle that we are now on and PGI needs to do something to fix it.

Solution:
1. Keep on the same path, risk the game failling due to insuffcient content.

or

2. Change your model and make a new rode. Open up your game, allow players to create content, such as maps, skins, etc. Larger projects could be "crowd funded" in such a way. Charge a comminsion on player created content. Steam/Valve has already explored this and it is working out very well for them.
Benefits: players become developers creating content for you not only free but in a way that generates income for all. More content= happier playerbase.

I could go into more complete detail, but i doubt PGI will read this so my effort and detail in this already suggested system matches their effort to communicate. But honestly with how small this PGI team is, i feel this is their only real solution. Sadly it would be extremely profitable to do so but some business simply refuse to adapt and will die accordingly.

Valve trades user created content for customizations. What are we going to charge people to play a map made by players? What to stop people from making unbalanced and unfair maps? Do you think PGI has the time to set up the infrastructure for something like that?

Edit: Side note, these customizations have blown out of proportion prices. I've seen hats that go for [Redacted] thousands of USD. Hats, it is a hat.

Hai guise, [S] Coconut Monkey 24,00 USD [T] For ten rares

God there is so much wrong with this short sighted and if not egotistical view of..."We can do it better!" You can't even spell commission or vicious right even though there is a red squiggly line that tells you of a spell check error.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 15 November 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[SmithMPBT]

Monetizing player created content sounds like a lazy way out for devs. Lower quality maps that you have to pay cash for, bleh.

[Troutmonkey]

Creating the infrastructure for allowing user created content is hard and time consuming work, which will lead to a glut of horrible stuff with only a gem or two underneath. User created content also creates a massive risk of IP violations and explicit content, because the first thing any good modding community does is create a nude mod.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 15 November 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Troutmonkey, on 15 November 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Creating the infrastructure for allowing user created content is hard and time consuming work, which will lead to a glut of horrible stuff with only a gem or too underneath. User created content also creates a massive risk of IP violations and explicit content, because the first thing any good modding community does is create a nude mod.

Oh god, someone would just mod a map just to have random models of Marauders everywhere and you'd get 'Incoming Lawsuits' flashing on your screen from now on.

[Araevin Teshurr]

For the first few negative commentators, you don't know the history of modding, and have probably never done any. I can recall many great games, that lived long passed their primes, because of excellent player content. The community quickly weed out the junk, and top-10s and favorite map and skin packs get pushed to the top of the heap.

We don't know what PGI plans, but all players feel the same, this game has stalled, it need to break out of its rut, by trying something different.

If MWO territory control warfare is not like eve-onlines, or damn close, but instead takes the pathetic route World of Tanks has, the it's doomed.

[Corvus Antaka]

Troutmonkey, on 15 November 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Creating the infrastructure for allowing user created content is hard and time consuming work, which will lead to a glut of horrible stuff with only a gem or too underneath. User created content also creates a massive risk of IP violations and explicit content, because the first thing any good modding community does is create a nude mod.

Nude Heavy Metals give me Nightmares.

User created maps would be great if PGI could find a way to bring them in within some type of "Choice" system - ie a flag players can set " I want to drop on custom content" or not, and then still have the maps limited to PGI approved vetting process that probably costs a bunch of time/money

Still it would be glorious if PGI could allow for user-created maps at some point in the future to give us more maps.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 15 November 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Relaed, on 15 November 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

If MWO territory control warfare is not like eve-onlines, or damn close, but instead takes the pathetic route World of Tanks has, the it's doomed.

[DEN_Ninja]

Relaed, on 15 November 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

For the first few negative commentators, you don't know the history of modding, and have probably never done any. I can recall many great games, that lived long passed their primes, because of excellent player content. The community quickly weed out the junk, and top-10s and favorite map and skin packs get pushed to the top of the heap.

We don't know what PGI plans, but all players feel the same, this game has stalled, it need to break out of its rut, by trying something different.

If MWO territory control warfare is not like eve-onlines, or damn close, but instead takes the pathetic route World of Tanks has, the it's doomed.

It goes beyond the content. I know there are some dedicated folks out there that could make great content but those are far fewer than you think. In fact it becomes a huge problem because some mods just simply beat out many other things and dominates. Such as the case of DotA which flourished greatly but killed all other competition in the same genre of maps except for some themed AoS's.

Not only that, it requires PGI to hire staff and make the infrastructure for a system that even allows for player created content. They have said this specifically that its hard to filter out things because they would get a good flow of content to scroll through. What is to stop people from honestly ruining the game that by making a map that is exploitable or just trolls and put random stuff such as pornography all around? You need actual people to explore and check the map for violations.

I wish I could SAY that most MWO players especially with their age are mature enough not to do this but that is not the case. The worst is if someone decided to troll and just make one map with a faux model of an unseen mech and we would have Harmony Gold back to sue this game and the IP into oblivion.

And yes, I have modded or partaked in modding to some degree and have watched it. Like someone said, one of the first mods for TESIII was a nudity mod...That and a phallic sword.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 15 November 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Destined, on 15 November 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Moved to Feature Suggestions.

You're to generous. I was thinking k-town

[Ghogiel]

Tichorius Davion, on 15 November 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

It goes beyond the content. I know there are some dedicated folks out there that could make great content but those are far fewer than you think. In fact it becomes a huge problem because some mods just simply beat out many other things and dominates. Such as the case of DotA which flourished greatly but killed all other competition in the same genre of maps except for some themed AoS's.

Not only that, it requires PGI to hire staff and make the infrastructure for a system that even allows for player created content. They have said this specifically that its hard to filter out things because they would get a good flow of content to scroll through. What is to stop people from honestly ruining the game that by making a map that is exploitable or just trolls and put random stuff such as pornography all around? You need actual people to explore and check the map for violations.

Not many scrubs or trolls will even be able to make maps for one...

because you'd have to have an account that has a certain standing. ie be active for a year and have paid X amount into that account to get access to the program. (it wouldn't stop people working together, which would be nigh on essential to bring together all the skills needed to make a production quality level anyway.) and trolls would just get their accounts banned. And even then it wouldn't make it past the vetting procedure. You can't easily hide infractions like that lol. This vetting would be player moderated all the way to the end. You would know the quality of the developers and the map a couple months prior to final release just by following the development thread or their portfolios. It's the sins of the level designer that would stop most maps from getting out the door. Amateurs would have to learn what's not going to work and how to pull off their concept within the limitations or it'll just be a cap of opening up the map looking at a few stat cvars, and saying 'nope'.

Quote

I wish I could SAY that most MWO players especially with their age are mature enough not to do this but that is not the case. The worst is if someone decided to troll and just make one map with a faux model of an unseen mech and we would have Harmony Gold back to sue this game and the IP into oblivion.

Safe harbor Law, as a service provider PGI would just have to comply with DMCAs and remove infringing content. It would be the user who is actually liable to monetary damages if any. Since PGI would have access to their info if a correct system was in place, it's not so easy and people would have to frame others, hack accounts etc just to spend hundreds of man hours on a map personally, which would have to be executed in a way that would demonstrate good working knowledge of CE level design, so you can't even be a scrub, and all that just to troll.

But besides it being doable, it is far fetched because PGI cannot into stuff. So yeah, PGI ain't doing anything here for various reasons. So we might as well just forget it.

[DEN_Ninja]

Ghogiel, on 15 November 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

Spoiler

Not many scrubs or trolls will even be able to make maps for one...

because you'd have to have an account that has a certain standing. ie be active for a year and have paid X amount into that account to get access to the program. (it wouldn't stop people working together, which would be nigh on essential to bring together all the skills needed to make a production quality level anyway.) and trolls would just get their accounts banned. And even then it wouldn't make it past the vetting procedure. You can't easily hide infractions like that lol. This vetting would be player moderated all the way to the end. You would know the quality of the developers and the map a couple months prior to final release just by following the development thread or their portfolios. It's the sins of the level designer that would stop most maps from getting out the door. Amateurs would have to learn what's not going to work and how to pull off their concept within the limitations or it'll just be a cap of opening up the map looking at a few stat cvars, and saying 'nope'.




Safe harbor Law, as a service provider PGI would just have to comply with DMCAs and remove infringing content. It would be the user who is actually liable to monetary damages if any. Since PGI would have access to their info if a correct system was in place, it's not so easy and people would have to frame others, hack accounts etc just to spend hundreds of man hours on a map personally, which would have to be executed in a way that would demonstrate good working knowledge of CE level design, so you can't even be a scrub, and all that just to troll.

But besides it being doable, it is far fetched because PGI cannot into stuff. So yeah, PGI ain't doing anything here for various reasons. So we might as well just forget it.

For the most part I do agree. At the end of the day all this effort for user content is not worth the hassle and trouble. I think you underestimate the lengths at which folks troll. The darkest parts of the internet have been known to throw all logic and sense to the winds to troll. Remember those caught 'Lulsec' guys? Ten years in jail for hacking. Their comments? "I did it for the lulz"

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 15 November 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Tichorius Davion, on 15 November 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

For the most part I do agree. At the end of the day all this effort for user content is not worth the hassle and trouble. I think you underestimate the lengths at which folks troll. The darkest parts of the internet have been known to throw all logic and sense to the winds to troll. Remember those caught 'Lulsec' guys? Ten years in jail for hacking. Their comments? "I did it for the lulz"

They'd be hacking servers and accounts to accomplish these lulz, if they are going to do all that then at least we get decent map out of it.

[Bhael Fire]

Imawuss, on 15 November 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

More content= happier playerbase.

As a game developer AND avid player, I honestly have no interest in playing with crowd-sourced content UNLESS it goes through a stringent review process from PGI to ensure that it's up to their standards....and possibly even modified and/or revised by them.

I've seen way too much crappy player-modded content in my time and would hate to see that happen to this game just because $$.

Aesthetic continuity is a very important element to immersion.

[Sandpit]

[Green Mamba]

As long as they are up to Duke Nukem Forever Standards right?

[Imawuss]

Well some clarification is needed. For new player created maps obviously their would need to be a vetting process to introduce them to the player base. When they pass a player and PGI QA it could go into a "crowd funding" mode where the creator will attempt to make x amount from the player base with PGI getting a cut. Other goodies could be added to entice players to put in a few bucks to "buy" it for all players.
They could also make major updates version of open-source for lack of a better word. Allowing capable players to create, oh i don't know something like community warfare. Things like this would again have QA and not just welly neely updated to the players. Open source is proven to do well because everyone can check out the code first, along with a strong modding community why not capitalize this when we all know PGI can't.

Understand this is high level not meant to get into the details. I'm just shooting out ideas to actually see this game turn into something more than its current status.