34 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

The speed for the 4X can be slightly increased, but only to a little over 64 kph: the max engine rating for that chassis is 255 - notoriously low for a heavy chassis. You have to learn to deal with it, but I still recommend you buy that variant. Autocannons are very strong right now, and the chassis does things no other Cataphract can do. As far as the others go, I'd go with the 2X and the 3D. Definitely the 3D.

For weapons on the 1X - no, there is only the one torso hardpoint for ballistic weapons (the ones colored yellow.) Bookmark this post in your web-browser, and use it religiously to evaluate builds before you buy anything for them. Especially the MechLab! It will let you build the 'mech on the site before you buy anything in MWO, and will even allow you to evaluate its cost, heat efficiency, and maximum/sustainable dps. All of the data is accurate, because the site owner, Smurfy, literally pulls it all out of the game files every patch. Smurfy's MechLab is a must-use for anyone learning the game, and is the best player-created resource for any game that I have ever seen.

Edited by Void Angel, 18 November 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Unnatural Growth]

I'm sure Kon covered it well.

I'm a big fan of the Hunchbacks. Folks make way too much issue out of it's hunch. Fix the armor for 46 pts in the front and 2 pts in the rear and go kill stuff. I mastered the -P, and -J variants with the hunch, but sold the -G after elite. Once I fixed the armor allocations on them, I very seldom ever lost a hunch in a match. Most of my deaths were center torso cores.

Never ran a Centurion, so I'll give that a pass.

Heavies, if you like ballistics (like I do), then yes, Cataphracts all the way. I mastered 3 of them, and kept the 3D and 2X. The main reason I sold the 4X was it's slow speed. Depends on how you play it for sure, but I PUG 100 % of the time. And I got tired of being left behind in the 4X since I couldn't keep up with the team even with a 255 engine. I'd take on a Jager in my 'phracts one on one any day.

I know Jagers are popular, but their armor is made of tissue paper and they fall on their faces in a straight up face off. Seriously, a heavy mech (-DD comes with 232 pts armor) that comes stock with less armor than my Jenner?! My medium Hunchbacks carry more armor than most Jagers. What makes Jagers effective is they run in groups, and stay at range, hiding over hills. If you can pick your fights, and stay out of direct fire, then Jagers can sure lay down the firepower. But you can't always pick your battles, and if I catch you out in the open, you're a smoking crater.

You should also look very hard at the Shadowhawks when they become available for Cbills. They are just amazing. I'm still surprised by them regularly on how much damage they can dish out and receive. They're nimble like a medium should be, all 3 variants have JJ's and at least one ballistic slot, have a good punch and take hits like a heavy. None of the variants are "boats", but all 3 make well rounded mechs that are good in most conditions. I would call them the best chassis in the game right now.

EDIT--

Meant to say Shadowhawks are "nimble like a medium should be..."

Fixed it for you Void, I know they're mediums!

Edited by OldOrgandonor, 18 November 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[Void Angel]

Actually, the Shadowhawks are mediums. =) And you can boat light autocannons in the 2H. =)

Hey, what happened to the post I was replying to? I look like a crazy person up there!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 18 November 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Hey, what happened to the post I was replying to? I look like a crazy person up there!

That's cause you are a crazy person - up there and every where else as well!
That is not always a bad thing, mind you.

Having said that - your post never showed a quote, that I saw.

[Unnatural Growth]

Void Angel, on 18 November 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Actually, the Shadowhawks are mediums.

I know, I fixed it for you.

[Void Angel]

But I don't always want to look like a crazy person! Where's the frolicksome element of surprise if everyone knows? But I swear there was a question about Cataphracts - I choose to believe that it was deleted by the author. And not that I'm having an "episode..."

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 18 November 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

But I don't always want to look like a crazy person! Where's the frolicksome element of surprise if everyone knows? But I swear there was a question about Cataphracts - I choose to believe that it was deleted by the author. And not that I'm having an "episode..."

It was mentioned 23 times on page one... but never in a negative - as I seem to recall that post as well, I'm bettin it was deleted.

....still don't mean you aint crazy though - just that you actually look it this time.

[Koniving]

Void Angel, on 18 November 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Actually, the Shadowhawks are mediums. =) And you can boat light autocannons in the 2H. =)
Hey, what happened to the post I was replying to? I look like a crazy person up there!

Post Deleted By AlphaTheOmega On Today, 02:20 PM.
Does this mean you can't see deleted posts? Been wondering about that.

[Void Angel]

I can see my own, but not other people's. You have to have some level of moderation priveleges to see deleted posts, I think.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 18 November 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

I can see my own, but not other people's. You have to have some level of moderation priveleges to see deleted posts, I think.

And yet, apparently Koniving can see AlphaTheOmega's...

Edit: typo

Edited by Shar Wolf, 18 November 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[Void Angel]

Witchcraft!

[Victor Morson]

Koniving, on 18 November 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Jaggermechs have the same armor as Catapults and significantly more than Centurions.

Jaggermechs have massive impossible to miss side torsos, and thus, are super squishy. Far, far, far more squishy than a Centurion.

[Koniving]

Meh. Interesting. I did get approached for being a volunteer moderator. Turned it down. Evidently something lingers. But I can't do anything beyond see deleted posts (as essentially blank), threads and who deleted them.

----

Centurions have half the vertical height and 4/3rds the horizontal width. Also significantly less armor potential and structure points compared to Jagers. There's also the fact that Centurions are taller than Jagers (...seriously they are). What makes a Centurion live longer is an oversized arm hitbox remnant after its gone cutting all damage by 50%.

Personally I miss when that shield arm actually meant something.

But anyway, squishy or not, a Centurion relies on missiles which are quite poor in registering damage and very short range. Or a ballistic it can't properly hold without forsaking the only thing that makes it worth while (the zombie nature). Its laser weapons are limited to lasers or flamers.

Meanwhile a Jager can exceed 400 damage in single minute intervals as pinpoint at ranges of 500 and greater with the simple skill of "point at the enemy, pull the trigger."

A Centurion has to learn to bob and weave, zig-zag, hit and run, encircle, prioritize between 5 or 6 enemies surrounding it, avoid getting the tip of its fin shot (seriously the mech has 2 head hitboxes) and pray it can fit a decently sized engine within 50 tons without going XL. It's sad to say but Hunchbacks can use XL engines better, and you can shoot the left rear torso on them from the front by aiming at the cylinder thing that says "shoot me."

Don't get me wrong. I love Centurions. But to say a Centurion is better than a Jager as a first mech is like offering a non 2D Commando as better than a Jenner JR7-D. Well, at least it's not like offering a Locust. But it's far fetched.

Now Centurion compared to Hunchback is like offering a JR7-K as better than a JR7-D. Each has their traits and do certain things better even if on the surface they're identical.

But back to that shield arm... I really want a button to bring it in front of me.
-------------
Jagers do have an issue as everyone aims for the side torso. But I lose my side torsos more often on the Awesome (the giant walking center torso), the Kintaro and the Orion than I do on the Jager. Why do Jagers lose their side torsos so much? Everyone aims for them. It's an unwritten rule you must be using an XL engine. Why don't I have the issue? I (try to) catch nasty shots with my arms.

Why does a Centurion not lose it so much? One the arms are freaking huge. Also what's the point of taking off the shoulder when it makes Centurion harder to kill instead of easier. Seriously. Try to kill a Centurion with its side torsos by going center torso. Then try to kill one that's lost a shoulder. An intact Centurion is easier to kill than a broken one. Anyone with half a brain will avoid destroying the body and go straight for the pelvis. Which btw, that pelvis is about 80% of the center torso and completely unprotected.

[luxebo]

Centurion I had one match where I lived to the point of 7%. And I lived. But the Cent can die much faster than Jager most likely if the Jager doesn't have XL. Centurions live when the enemy isn't a skilled marksman, and that's when they end up losing almost all their limbs and body parts, but just don't die. My friend CRIMSONSUNNY (his username is in all caps for some odd reason) mastered Jagers and according to him he always dies from Center Torso with XL/Standard and he rarely loses a side torso, but I haven't piloted Jagers yet. (I've tried Blackjack, but I lost my side literally once so far.)

[Koniving]

Indeed. Considering I like running Jagers with MGs, flamers, and shotguns and do quite well with them, the squishy thing on Jagers is only an issue if you're too slow when using an XL or too ineffective when using a standard.



I love me a good barbecue. Edit: I confess, since people are blatantly ignoring me in that vid it's not a good demonstration. (Don't ignore meeeee!) Looks like I'll need to fish the build out to run some solo gigs.

Edited by Koniving, 18 November 2013 - 10:39 PM.