69 replies to this topic

[Devilsfury]

Thanks Colonel ! Good explaination wihtout sounding like a troll or *****. Good on you man! Ive 1-2 shot them myself while in my Orion with an AC20. Other times I hit with a 20 and the arm turns yellow. But I did enjoy your explanation! /thumbs up

[Burke IV]

i was going to write a learn to play post, but i dont feel i been here long enough to tell people with enormous game counts how to play. Im not really having much trouble shooting legs off spiders atm, but they are only pug spiders.

Edit: turn your damage glow off it just causes rage

Edited by Burke IV, 17 November 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[KharnZor]

GalaxyBluestar, on 17 November 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

[Mehlan]

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My last post on this. Here are some facts. Search the forums over the last say, 2-3 months. Tell me how many posts there are with people saying that Commandos are OP, how about Jenners, Raven. Oh wait, Locusts. You wont find any. So since your all about facts. Explain to me that. People have no prob hitting locast, jenner, raven or commandos. You dont see posts on them. Why not? Everyone is super good at hitting all of them but are incapable of hitting the Spider? Before HSR no one had problems hitting SPiders. Since, the hit detection is iffy at best. Sometimes I can kill them easy, sometimes it will take me several alphas. I know hit detection is iffy all over the place but why the big uproar on Spiders. WHY? Im wondering and would love a good explaination. If its just hit detection on the Spider itself, then yes, its a broken mech and should be fixed. I just want to see your reason why no one else complains about any other light. Please enlighten us why everyone is mad about 1 mech and not any other mech in game.

Why should I bother to to answer any of your anecdotal shlock when you still ignore the questions posed to you? I'm willing to bet if you go through those threads/posts you'll find the people making the complaints do NOT number in the 'hundreds'. While we're at it though, why don't you explain why you ignore the intermittent 'hole' that showing on the Jenner?

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Thanks Colonel ! Good explaination wihtout sounding like a troll or *****. Good on you man! Ive 1-2 shot them myself while in my Orion with an AC20. Other times I hit with a 20 and the arm turns yellow. But I did enjoy your explanation! /thumbs up

You know if you'd posted an intelligent, thought out post based on facts gathered from testing, I'd either ignored it or given you a nice, polite reply... but when you come up with

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Basically, Spiders are broken. We all know it, some defend it, some cry, some yell. Devs cant fix it, yet keep the broken mech in game. We just have to suck it up. Close thread.

Dev's said awhile back that the HSR thing, was deep code and would take a lot of time/effort to 'fix', the ballistic issue still remains also. Precisely how do they 'fix' a 'broken' mech when two major systems play into/affect/impact/describe the complaints about the mech particularly when, you yourself state the it is not consistent.

So again....explain

Quote

Why don't you tell us then, why is it the 'performance' is intermittent if its the mech... where are all the folx with the 6+to0 kdr's in spiders? Heck where are all the 4+to0 Kdr's in Spiders?
How have you determined from mech vs HSR/network vs Ballistic bug?
Precisely how do they 'fix' a 'broken' mech when two major systems play into/affect/impact/describe the complaints about the mech particularly when, you yourself state the it is not consistent.

[Wolfways]

Spiders are not broken...MWO is broken. It's just more obvious on smaller, thinner, and faster mechs (although speed doesn't always seem to matter. Yesterday a Spider stood still about 50m from me and i put a gauss round and 4xLL's into his ct before he cored me (in my Orion) with his MG's and ran off )

Aim has nothing to do with it. But you do need the right weapons (AC20, PPC, etc.) Basically, to not get annoyed by lights you need to equip your mech to kill lights specifically.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Spiders are not broken...MWO is broken. It's just more obvious on smaller, thinner, and faster mechs (although speed doesn't always seem to matter. Yesterday a Spider stood still about 50m from me and i put a gauss round and 4xLL's into his ct before he cored me (in my Orion) with his MG's and ran off )

Aim has nothing to do with it. But you do need the right weapons (AC20, PPC, etc.) Basically, to not get annoyed by lights you need to equip your mech to kill lights specifically.

you mean ssrm boats? does that mean we'll be making streak cats are op threads and then ecm will solve it only to...

yeah been there done that.

[Wolfways]

GalaxyBluestar, on 17 November 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

you mean ssrm boats? does that mean we'll be making streak cats are op threads and then ecm will solve it only to...

yeah been there done that.

I don't think SSRM's are that effective tbh. Nearly every time i'm killed in a light it's by an AC20.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I don't think SSRM's are that effective tbh. Nearly every time i'm killed in a light it's by an AC20.

they used to wreck anything in range if you boated enough because even someone unconscious could aim and they cored the CT, now though they work perfectly for when the 4 and 6 come which is about right. ac20 only good if your rig runs well and the HSR is in your favour... i'm waiting for those two planets to aline for me and my oceanic comrades.

[Wolfways]

GalaxyBluestar, on 17 November 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

they used to wreck anything in range if you boated enough because even someone unconscious could aim and they cored the CT, now though they work perfectly for when the 4 and 6 come which is about right. ac20 only good if your rig runs well and the HSR is in your favour... i'm waiting for those two planets to aline for me and my oceanic comrades.

Yeah i remember the StreakCats. I hated them But it looks like the StreakTaro has taken their place. I guess SSRM's like LRM's now. Only useful if boated.

[Corvus Antaka]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Yeah i remember the StreakCats. I hated them But it looks like the StreakTaro has taken their place. I guess SSRM's like LRM's now. Only useful if boated.

actually even 1 or 2 is great for throwing the enemy pilots aim off. add a flamer in for extra annoyingness.

[Burke IV]

GalaxyBluestar, on 17 November 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

they used to wreck anything in range if you boated enough because even someone unconscious could aim and they cored the CT, now though they work perfectly for when the 4 and 6 come which is about right.

As somebody who tends to run a single streak2 on many mechs, i get the impression that light mechs are going to be royally boned when the streak4 arrives... i cant even imagine the 6.

[nehebkau]

Here is my experience with a spider about 1 minute ago....

Snuck up behind him in caustic, he had no damage. He was standing still and i was behind him. Closed to 90 M and opened up with a volly of 3 LBX10s.... He turned yellow all over. I kept closing distance and hit him again with 3 LBX10s ... he stayed yellow all over. He started to move and turned sideways and I hit him again with 3 lbx10s His arm armor turned red (armor not structure) and the rest of him didn't change colour at all -- or maybe a darker shade of yellow.

He then ran off. (i was a little pissed -- thought I had a free dinner)

Now, from 90M, the spread on those LBXs isn't all that big, so why his legs would change colour when i was dead-eye on his back is beyone me. Even stranger is why his front armor would turn yellow from a back shot. (his face was stuck against a rock face) What is an even bigger question is why I didn't strip his armor given that I piled 90 pts of damage into his little back. Now I'm not sayin spiders are unkillable, I'm sayin that they are badly messed up and look forward to them being fixed and seeing how all those *uber* spider pilots fare.

Now i was just playing around in the training grouns shootin the spider in crimson straight and I was able to damage his left arm by shooting his right arm (torso too cause arm blew off) from 20M with 3 LBX10s.

View the shot progression (these were 3xLBX10s and the crosshairs are where the shot goes)


Check out the front of that arm. I think there are some "holes" in the model that let things go through.

Edited by nehebkau, 18 November 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

at 90m you are close enough to see convergence dispersion.

try firing between mechs limbs from various ranges 10m-200m using both arm lock and not. you'll see that convergence will cause arm mounted ac/20 to say hit a cats leg when you aim inbetween his hip and arm in what would appear to be a miss.

but since the bullet angles out and your at a close range your hitting instead.

weapons ejecting from torsos also act differently than those fired from arms, most significantly ballistics or the PPC class.

This is one reason the highlander 733c is so popular, hitting with torso mounted ppc's is significantly easier than using arm mounted ballistics, most especially against light mechs.

What happes is this.

with torso fired guns the gun leaves in a straight line regardless of the range or if indeed any object is "under" your reticule. your shot will always fire the same.

However, with any arm mounted gun, whether or not the mech is "under" your arm reticule when you fire or not has a massive impact on the trajectory of the bullet.

This is a primary reason why people find light mechs "hard to hit" and why the spider's "unique" design and thin spindly body parts makes it especially difficult to hit and often damage.

To hit a spider with an arm mounted ac/20 requires you to lead & adjust your aim according to the terrain in the distance that you are actually forced to target to lead the spider.

This is working as intended and has always been part of the game.

Many pilots now use "locked to torso" reticules. this helps fire arm mounted guns on the same plane as torso mounted weapons. However, arm mounted guns at various ranges esp in clase vs faster lights require a unique ability to gauge the targets and the bullets flight times to make the proper hit connection.

firing against slow targets (sub 100) you simply dont see this or learn how arm fired ballistics and understanding and using their unique firing properties correctly matters. you do see this vs lights, and when you get a mech like the spider or raven with smaller legs or many "Gaps" between the limbs you then begin to need to scale up your aiming skills to get the desired results.

Using an ERPPC spider against other spiders is not easy with the arm mounted PPC and requires a lot of good "Feel" or judgement exactly because of this feature of the game.

I'm not excusing HSR issues. with my 10-20 ping I don't have problems hitting spiders, but I know enough people with high pings that do. given the high speed of these mechs this is unsurprising, and again I'll note to wait for the hitbox changes and to consider the convergence & trajectory behaviour of the various guns based on their mounting as significant in evaluating the accuracy of your ability or inability to hit small targets esp the spider with it's excellent design.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 18 November 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[nehebkau]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 18 November 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

.... read above ...

Best, most reasoned answer I have seen in a long time.... THANKS!

[GalaxyBluestar]

Burke IV, on 18 November 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

As somebody who tends to run a single streak2 on many mechs, i get the impression that light mechs are going to be royally boned when the streak4 arrives... i cant even imagine the 6.

which why they're toned down appropriately. it was silly how as long as you pressed the r button you could fire and they'd turn on a peny to get that CT. not now though and that's fair

Wolfways, on 17 November 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Yeah i remember the StreakCats. I hated them But it looks like the StreakTaro has taken their place. I guess SSRM's like LRM's now. Only useful if boated.

as for boating... what do you expect of ssrm 2! they're like the MG's of the missile class, some stacking will always occour for these launchers. if we had ssrm 6's stacked in 3's or more regularly you may have had a point about the "only good stacking" line.

lurms are a different subject for a different thread though i have observed 1-2 std launchers doing fine for support suppression fire recently. lurms are in a really good spot balance wise.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 18 November 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[William Mountbank]

In addition to Col Vinson's answers:

nehebkau, on 18 November 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Even stranger is why his front armor would turn yellow from a back shot. (his face was stuck against a rock face)

The front centre torso of all mechs extends down through the crotch and up to the bum area like a nappy (diaper in colonial English). So shooting any mech right in the arse results in a CT hit, which is one of those useful tricks to know.

nehebkau, on 18 November 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

I was able to damage his left arm by shooting his right arm (torso too cause arm blew off) from 20M with 3 LBX10s.
Check out the front of that arm. I think there are some "holes" in the model that let things go through.

It's more likely that there were pellet 'misses' in those shots. It's just that the misses kept on travelling and hit the elbow or fist of the left arm (it's a bit hard to see in your pics).

[Black Ivan]

The Spider is broken, entirely. We had 5 Mechs shot on it and it did not even turn orange or yellow.

[Amsro]

Black Ivan, on 19 November 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

The Spider is broken, entirely. We had 5 Mechs shot on it and it did not even turn orange or yellow.

Wrong and you still won't be able to hit it after patch.

GG

[LawDawg]

I cannot wait till HSR is fixed so all the "Spider" threads quit popping up. That or ppl get in the Pilot tree and invest in some accelerated torso twist. Sorry, they don't have a Module to help you aim.

There small / fast and have JJ...........so a good pilot is highly maneuverable and hard to hit.

The good ones will still shine, and you will still QQ and clog the forums with endless posts that we enjoy OH so much.

[Clit Beastwood]

Devilsfury, on 17 November 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Nevermind. The hundreds of posts, videos, and even devs know Spiders are messed up. Its okay. The hundreds of people posting are all liars. BTW...

Base Statistics

Name Value MechWarrior Credits 6 Kills / Death 6,817 / 3,225 C-Bills 3,426,370 Experience Points 6,027,221 Wins / Losses 5,142 / 2,519 Kill / Death Ratio 2.11 Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 123,551.13 Avg. XP Per Match 786.74

I think he meant the stats from when your expert hand guided the mighty spider to a dramatic victory. It's easy to talk about them, but snap a screenshot and post that, unaltered, if the spider is truly easymode. If it's as you describe, your KDR should be great.