35 replies to this topic

[Alaric Hasek]

Why would PGi allow Clan tech? Aren't there already people complaining about "Play to Win"?
Besides, we already have Omnimechs.

[Kobold]

Alaric Hasek, on 17 November 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Why would PGi allow Clan tech? Aren't there already people complaining about "Play to Win"?
Besides, we already have Omnimechs.

Either they will have to hit it HARD with the nerf bat (which I would be sad to see) or drops would have to be asymmetric. (which I would prefer) unless fighting against other clanners. Clan players would only be able to play on clan teams, not mixed with IS players. Give their side fewer players, and/or lower tonnage.


I wouldn't mind minor reduction to clan weapons, but if they just end up being slightly lighter IS weapons, I'll be disappointed.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

They have mentioned that they want to tone down Clan tech generally, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some radical tweaks to certain Clan weapons (cLRMs, cERPPCs, etc.).

Also, we don't have omnimechs. We can change out IS, we can swap engines, we can do all kinds of crazy stuff, but we can't violate hard point limitations. An omnimech would have no hard points (unrestricted pod space use), but would be unable to change any default gear like engine rating, armor type and minimum armor distribution values, stock weapons (some Clan omnis have "fixed" weapons that are always equipped and don't use omni pods), etc.

[NRP]

Can we please all agree to start using the terms "Clams" and "Clam Tech"? Because it makes me laugh.

[Slepnir]

Hans Von Lohman, on 16 November 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Clan standard engines are no different.

Clan XL engines ony have 2 slots in the side torsos, not three. They will not die to a side torso hit, but it will (probably) make them act as if they were just legged to a side torso destruction with an XL installed.

However, that is only true in the board game. PGI has also said their plan is to not have Clan Tech be as over powered as it is in the board game.

To me they might actually have it so you DO die if you lose a side torso in a Clan XL engined mech. The only advantage then is having 2 more critical slots available to you.

That right there will be the death of this game, the balance factor for clans VS innersphere forces is that clanners face 2 lances for every clan star...so it would be 8 V 5 if implemented correctly. if they nerfstick clan tech and make it...not clan tech............... the dedicated fanbase will leave the game, it is what a large number of players have been waiting for. they want to be able to play their favorite clanners the way they are supposed to be and sometimes against them as their favorite house faction........................................ On the second point-no the tech should not be crossable, the combine had to build special chassis to take clan weapons, and if you rig clan weapons on IS mechs you have to roll for malfunctions on TT to see if it will even work.

Edited by Slepnir, 17 November 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Slepnir, on 17 November 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

That right there will be the death of this game, the balance factor for clans VS innersphere forces is that clanners face 2 lances for every clan star...so it would be 8 V 5 if implemented correctly. if they nerfstick clan tech and make it...not clan tech............... the dedicated fanbase will leave the game, it is what a large number of players have been waiting for. they want to be able to play their favorite clanners the way they are supposed to be and sometimes against them as their favorite house faction........................................ On the second point-no the tech should not be crossable, the combine had to build special chassis to take clan weapons, and if you rig clan weapons on IS mechs you have to roll for malfunctions on TT to see if it will even work.

Actually, the Clans generally tried to be in 2 vs 1 odds against them, not 8 vs 5. To put it more accurately they would try to have a Clan Nova fight an Inner Sphere company. I.E. 5 omni-mechs and 5 stars of elemental infantry vs 12 inner sphere mechs using standard tech (not upgraded with Star League Technology like XL engines).

I don't think the plan is for that to happen in MWO. I expect they may actually go with a Binary vs a Company if they are going to have a Clan vs IS game, I.E. 10 Omni-Mechs vs 12 mechs we currently have.

To me, if they go that route, is to have the stats of the Omni-Mechs pretty much be identical except for weights and critical slots used. Damage, ranges, minimum ranges, ect would be the same between IS and Clan tech.

However, that doesn't mean that Omni-Mechs are going to be worse. No, they still have a lot of benefits even if that is all they have that is improved. Clan Double Heat Sinks only take up 2 slots, Clan UAC-20 is only 12 tons, not 15 (note, we're talking the UAC-20, not the AC-20, it is a ton heavier than normal), and their ER PPC is 2 slots, and only weighs 6 tons.

We'll see, though. Right now I couldn't tell you how much nerfing Clan Tech would need to match 10 vs 12, but that is the ratio I would shoot for. Binary vs Company.

[Training Instructor]

If they make Clan mechs die to a single torso being destroyed, the odds of me continuing this game are extremely low.

[Father Tork]

If they made clan mechs as printed component wise, they'd be terrible.

This is entirely due to how heat sinks are working, even if they had double heat sinks that were 2.0 efficiency, none of the standard clan mech designs will be able to handle heat properly.

As such, going on the assumption that PGI aren't entirely inept, Clan mechs will probably be tooled to simply be different, but not over powered vs IS.

Personally if Clan mechs ran very hot and thus requires more trigger discipline I'd be happy. As it would mean a whole bunch of people on the forums complaining about how terrible they are, and pilots learning to use them will excel in leaderboards

[Sug]

I wish they would stop working on Clan stuff and make a game.

Edited by Sug, 18 November 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Antonio, on 16 November 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

Well, there is a clam invasion:
http://www.timesunio...ams-3886481.php

Tide of the Goldfish If you want something worth reading!

[Vodrin Thales]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

They have mentioned that they want to tone down Clan tech generally, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some radical tweaks to certain Clan weapons (cLRMs, cERPPCs, etc.).

Also, we don't have omnimechs. We can change out IS, we can swap engines, we can do all kinds of crazy stuff, but we can't violate hard point limitations. An omnimech would have no hard points (unrestricted pod space use), but would be unable to change any default gear like engine rating, armor type and minimum armor distribution values, stock weapons (some Clan omnis have "fixed" weapons that are always equipped and don't use omni pods), etc.

PGI has hinted they are going to handle clan tech a little differently than seen previously. They have said they plan to have clan tech balanced with IS tech (going to be a bit difficult to pull off I think), and that omni's are not going to be hardpointless, but instead will have multiple hardpoint configurations possible for each variant that can be swapped between freely.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I pretty much think Clan Tech will be the same range, minimum range, heat, and damage values of the IS versions for weapons and gear. However, they will have the Clan value for weights and critical slots.

Hardpoints may be something you can customize on an Omni-Mech. You may be able to change the right arm of your mech to have an Autocannon hardpoint, or have it with 2 energy hardpoints without needing to change any other body location hardpoints at all.

But, we'll see.

[verybad]

DarkDevilDancer, on 16 November 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Clan engines on omni mechs are all extra light's, however they only take up 2 crits on the torso's so to kill a clan mech you must still core the CT or destroy both side torso's.

Actually, the Daishi (Dire Wolf) has a standard engine not an XL. Clan normal engines are the same as IS ones. clan XL engines aren't destroyed if the side torsos are destroyed however (though they are damaged) This is a HUGE survivability factor.

[verybad]

For the longer range, clan weapons could simply have less damage reduction over standard range.

Things like CERPPCs should do more damage, but have a longer recharge time IMO along with increased ghost heat factor perhaps. (make ghost heat build after ONE CERPPC, this reduces effectiveness of firing them non chain. Still they should be nasty, just hot.

Clan LRMs...half tonnage, canonically can target at any range (including right next to you) don't know how they play on making that work, IMO clan lrms should have worse indirect fire performance (less arching path) as clans consider indirect fire to be dishonorable.Perhaps make them lose target on indirect targets very quickly, reload slowly with a wider spread?

UAC20s for 12 tons and 9 crits? Well make them jam pretty often and increase the reload over standard UAC-20s, probably would run hot also. Jamming should be the ticket for managing the C-UACs.

SSRM-6s? with longer range? Well those should be pretty effective...Give them longer lock times though. SSRM-4s similiar, just less.

half tonnage standard SRMs? Make them run hotter with slower reloads.

CERLLs They should be slightly slower recharge than standard ERLLs,but more damage (similar DPS) not concerned about the range, most map ranges in the game don't reward the incredible range a CERLL can make it to so it's not that big a factor.
CERML? Give them high DPS but nasty ghost heat factor (I think 4 ERML before ghost heat starts would work)
CERSL? Not terribly worried, Give them the same heat/DPS as a standard ML, but much shorter range *meh*
Clan Pulse Lasers? I'm not terribly worried about these, the Pulse laser mechanic hasn't resulted in them acting more accurately than standard lasers IMO.

Clan LBX's? Not worried, should be nasty with CLBX20s, but any AC-20 variant is nasty already.

Clan XL engine? Might be one of the most overlooked factors, surviving with you side torso blown out and still having an XL engine's tonnage boost is major. I say make them more heat vulnerable (ie shut down easier)
Clan Heat sinks? Well they're good, still keep them as is, It's not as large a factor as the tough XL engines IMO..
Clan Endosteel? Yep it's also good. Let it remain so, the clans ARE supposed to be ultra high tech after all. It's a useful tech, but it's not that op.
Clan Ferrofibrous? Still not worried, it's better than IS, but most people won't take it unless there's room left, they won't make room for it however.

Most of my weapon solutions are based on heat or reload time. Initial performance of clan weaponry (ie first fire) would be much better than IS weapons, but they would have worse endurance overall in a close fight.without good heat management. IS forces would be best served to close with clan forces and get in brawls.

For Omni technology, I don't see all in one variants, PGI isn't going to be able to sell one Omni for the price of three or more variants to many people.

[Hans Von Lohman]

verybad, on 18 November 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

For Omni technology, I don't see all in one variants, PGI isn't going to be able to sell one Omni for the price of three or more variants to many people.

I do. You have to BUY the pod space aka the hardpoints. If you want to change it so you omni-mech can mount an autocannon in the right arm when it can only mount an energy weapon at the moment, you can buy it with MC or for a metric ton of Clan money/points. Then drag off the energy hardpoint from your mech, and drag and drop in your new ballistic hardpoint onto the right arm.

If you want both an autocannon and an energy hardpoint, well you are dreaming. PGI can still set it up so you cannot have the 'perfect mech' because if they allow omni-mechs to have unlimited weapon customization, that sort of renders selling new omni-mechs, and PGI needs people to buy new ones.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 18 November 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Slepnir]

Quote

I pretty much think Clan Tech will be the same range, minimum range, heat, and damage values of the IS versions for weapons and gear. However, they will have the Clan value for weights and critical slots.

............That will absolutely kill the game. its one thing to tweek a bit for game balance it is quite another to totally alter the IP especially one so well known with such a long history ...making the clan weapons act exactly like IS but weigh a bit less or be a bit smaller crit slot wise will unleash a backlash PGI wont survive. no clan weapon has a minimum range save a few things like the clan gauss rifle. clan LRMs certainly don't have mins.... heck some of them don't even have an inner sphere counterpart.