15 replies to this topic

[Greyboots]

There's things you really need to know about certain things as a beginner in Mechwarrior Online and today's talk in Dr Greyboot's Mechlab is Energy weapons!

While energy weapons are the staple in Mechwarrior Online, almost every mech can carry some, they are NOT beginner weapons! You should consider the following points very carefully, especially when wondering how to spend your Cadet Bonus CBills! Your Cadet Bonus is intended to help you get a smooth transition into Mechwarrior Online and this should help you once it runs out.

Choosing the wrong mech can have serious implications on how your game experience changes once the Cadet Bonus runs out!

1) Ammo is a bonus, not a drawback!

This is the most important of them all!

Heat is universal and regenerating "ammo". Every weapon uses it to be able to fire. This controls the amount of damage you can deal in any situation. Once you run out of heat you can no longer fire. Ammunition is a special ability that allows a weapon to bypass this regenerating ammo. Yes, ammo is a special ability. Ammo allows you to bypass the controlling factors that heat has on your weaponry AND how much of an effect movement, jumping and map heat have on the damage you do.

This means that,

• when using Energy Weapons, you have to consider the fact that walking and jumping are using up your ammo!
  
• you also have to consider that Maps have varying ambient temperatures which effect how much "ammo" you are going to have!

2) Lasers take a while to get up to speed!.

The first big thing you need to be aware of is the XP/mech training structure. You can buy 2 skills directly related to heat dissipation for every mech you train: Cool Run (heat dissipation +7.5%) and Heat Containment (+10% heat threshold). Upon completing Elite training these 2 skills are DOUBLED in effectiveness to +15% and +20% respectively.

This means that a mech's ability to power Energy Weapons is NOT at it's full effectiveness until the Mech is trained to Elite status.


3) Energy Weapons aren't just Ballistic Weapons that don't need ammo!

Lasers and ACs are balanced on different principles. They straddle the line between Ballistics and LRMs. Energy weapons are light compared to their Ballistic counterparts AND take fewer slots. The ideal is that, like LRM centric mechs, you use one set of weapons at range and then a secondary, cooler, higher DPS set at closer ranges.

The highest DPS for weight weapons in MWO are

• Medium Lasers (1 ton for 1.25 DPS).
  
• Small Pulse Lasers (1 ton for 1.24 DPS)
  
• Small Lasers (.5 ton for 1 DPS)
  
• Machine Guns (.5 tons for 1 DPS).

When you upgrade to larger energy weapons you are trading your DPS and lower heat generation for range, you are not necessarily getitng "more powerful". This usually means that if you are trying to play in the "Ballistic weapons" sandbox, you are going to come off second best.


4) There is no "energy weapon" module.

• LRMs and Streak SSRMs both benefit greatly from from the Target Decay module.
  
• AC's, because of their extended ranges, benefit to a higher degree from both the Sensor Range module and the Advanced Zoom.
  
• Laser weapons have no corresponding module that benefits them more than the other weapon types.

What they do benefit more from a consumable (coolant flush). Unlike Modules, Coolant Flush is a "one use" item. The maximum number of coolant flushes you can take is 2 and (without using MC) it can cost you up 70,000 cbills per match as an ongoing cost. Those who have been playing for a while and still struggling to purchase and train new mechs (or even those playing without Premium time) can find themselves unable to take advantage of these consumables as much as a Module can benefit you.

Of course the offset is that you can buy them individually and don't have to train any skills in the Pilot Lab to take them (although you can upgrade their effectiveness). You don't have to save up the 6,000,000 million cBills that some other modules can cost you. IF you can afford it you can start using them much earlier than a module.


Energy Weapons may not be the choice for you!

When spending your Cadet bonus, it's pretty important to understand these things.

Your first few mechs need to be capable of generating you a solid income to keep you in cBills for new mechs, weaponry and upgrades without costing you an absolute fortune. If you have a lot of time to play? It's quite possible this won't matter to you but for those casuals out there this can be a very important choice!

Any mech can power a couple of Energy weapons and almost every Mech in the game is capable of mounting them along side other weapon types. Energy Weapons often function as "backup weapons" for a number of reasons. As examples, many weapons are perfectly capable of running out of ammo. When your ammo is depleted and you are no longer able to fire your "main weapons", a small number of laser weapons will keep you dealing damage, even though that damage is reduced. Also, weapons like LRMs and PPCs have a minimum range under which they deal no damage. Laser wepons are often used to fill in this range gap and provide you with some defence against mechs which close in on you.

"All energy weapon" mechs are a little different and can be exhaustively expensive because of the relationship between your heat and damage. This can mean the necessity to purchase larger engines (often the greatly more expensive XL engines), Double Heat Sinks and other sundries to achieve the same effectiveness as many Ballistic or Missile mechs. Because there is no upkeep costs in Mechwarrior Online (everything is fixed and your ammo is restocked for free), it can make a whole lot of sense to make sure you stick to Mechs with ballistic weapons in the early stages of your journey.

They are simply cheaper to buy, are fully effective much sooner as you train them and generically easier to play well. It's more likely that mechs relying heavily on ballistic weapons will give you a faster progression in the game!

Class dismissed!

This post has been edited to reflect the input of the following players: Koniving, ManaValkyrie.
Thankyou for your input!

Edited by Greyboots, 19 November 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Rascula]

Some interesting observations!

[Koniving]

Good and largely accurate (You can't carry 3 coolant flushes. Just 2. If you buy the large cbill one you can't mount the MC one and vice versa).

Also, a distinction between laser, pulse laser, ER laser, flamer, and particle projector cannon may be due as all 3 are energy weapons. I'll leave that to you. A note about flamers, unlike all other energy weapons they don't go to double their stated range. They also generate exponential heat over time (both on the target and yourself) rather than one set amount of heat.

[Bront]

Nicely done. I'm a little surprised you didn't get into the benefits and drawbacks of Hitscan weapons, because while that's a problem with lasers, it's also a benefit when dealing with fast mechs or in simply doing something, but otherwise, it's a good read on the problems with energy weapons.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Bront, on 17 November 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Nicely done. I'm a little surprised you didn't get into the benefits and drawbacks of Hitscan weapons, because while that's a problem with lasers, it's also a benefit when dealing with fast mechs or in simply doing something, but otherwise, it's a good read on the problems with energy weapons.

To be fair, this wasn't a tactical use guide, but focused more on cost effectiveness etc. Also a lot of new players will think that laser must be better weapons since you can't run out of ammo etc.

[ManaValkyrie]

Nick Makiaveli, on 17 November 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

To be fair, this wasn't a tactical use guide, but focused more on cost effectiveness etc. Also a lot of new players will think that laser must be better weapons since you can't run out of ammo etc.

It's a good bit of information for new players, however, I would point out that an energy based weapon is a good backup to ammo based weapons. They are not necessarily as efficient as Ballistics presently but you will at least have a weapon to use when you run out of ammo, or if using LRM's inside the minimum range.

[Koniving]

ManaValkyrie, on 17 November 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

It's a good bit of information for new players, however, I would point out that an energy based weapon is a good backup to ammo based weapons. They are not necessarily as efficient as Ballistics presently but you will at least have a weapon to use when you run out of ammo, or if using LRM's inside the minimum range.

Indeed.

Though in terms of book lore, ACs and MWO's lasers would actually be on par with each other (ACs with a possibility to overload your gyro and knock you down, lasers without) as ACs are more burst fire (Chemjet AC/20 with a 1.5 second 4-shot burst would fire a 5 damage slug every 0.5 seconds (Fire at 0, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5) and then 2.5 seconds to reload the magazine/cassette = 4 second AC/20 cycle time) or fully automatic (Chemjet AC/20 of a fully MG style would fire 4 shots within 4 seconds dealing 5 damage each. Whirlwind AC/5 would fire 3 shots of 1.33 damage every 0.5 seconds for 5 damage in 1.5 seconds.) But we're not using lore-based ACs.

[Nick Makiaveli]

ManaValkyrie, on 17 November 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

It's a good bit of information for new players, however, I would point out that an energy based weapon is a good backup to ammo based weapons. They are not necessarily as efficient as Ballistics presently but you will at least have a weapon to use when you run out of ammo, or if using LRM's inside the minimum range.

Agreed, but I meant it more as new players by definition wouldn't have a feel for things like range, heat dissipation etc etc or if coming from a game in which ammo played a big role, that lasers would be far superior etc.

Whereas your playstyle and other weapons choices play into it etc.

Just didn't want anyone to think I was dissing lasers, almost all my mechs have some for when the ammo runs out if nothing else

[ManaValkyrie]

Nick Makiaveli, on 17 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Just didn't want anyone to think I was dissing lasers, almost all my mechs have some for when the ammo runs out if nothing else

I didn't think you were, just felt needed to add that for new players. See far too many walking sticks without weapons because they ran out of ammo.

[Greyboots]

Koniving, on 17 November 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Good and largely accurate (You can't carry 3 coolant flushes. Just 2. If you buy the large cbill one you can't mount the MC one and vice versa).

Thanks, Fixed! (I hope ).

Quote

Also, a distinction between laser, pulse laser, ER laser, flamer, and particle projector cannon may be due as all 3 are energy weapons. I'll leave that to you. A note about flamers, unlike all other energy weapons they don't go to double their stated range. They also generate exponential heat over time (both on the target and yourself) rather than one set amount of heat.

Thanks! I had seriously thought about this but I wasn't sure whether to do so because from where I sit it's a little complicated where PPCs are concerned. They act like Ballistic weapons meaning shooting moving targets with a combimation of lasers and PPCs can be a right pain so it's usually not a good idea to group them together.

PPCs are an interesting case because, although they are the "big ranged weapon" for Energy weapons, they are also structured far more like a support weapon (EMP effect).

I was worried that these topics might make the post a little bloated and start getting past the basics that a new player might understand. I'll find a way to get it in there.

ManaValkyrie, on 17 November 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

It's a good bit of information for new players, however, I would point out that an energy based weapon is a good backup to ammo based weapons. They are not necessarily as efficient as Ballistics presently but you will at least have a weapon to use when you run out of ammo, or if using LRM's inside the minimum range.

Thanks! I will cover this more coherently after ruminating a little.

[Victor Morson]

Making an energy weapons guide without bringing up Ghost Heat and all the ways it brutally punishes the energy weapon user is a massive oversight. Esp. in a guide for new people.

[Koniving]

Greyboots, on 17 November 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

PPCs are an interesting case because, although they are the "big ranged weapon" for Energy weapons, they are also structured far more like a support weapon (EMP effect).

I was worried that these topics might make the post a little bloated and start getting past the basics that a new player might understand. I'll find a way to get it in there.

The EMP effect can just be simplified as "neutralizes ECM for 5 seconds," and with flamers you could cover them or simply state it's better to avoid them for now.

Another thing you can do is if you think the topic is a little advanced, throw it in a spoiler in the appropriate section for players to check out when they feel they are ready.

For example:
"Basic Info about weapon."

Spoiler

"Advanced info about weapon."

Also for Victor's tidbit you can simply link this along with the rest of the details. It's a list updated with every patch containing penalties. The numbers going left to right are how many of the weapon you use at once. The number in green or orange is how much heat you receive. Note there are linked weapons and unlinked.

Spoiler

Advanced info: For example you can fire 2 LRM-10s but if you fire 3 you get punished. You can fire 2 LRM-15s or even 2 LRM-20s just fine. But 3 LRM-20s, or an LRM 20 + an LRM-15 + LRM-10 = punished. But unlinked are LRM-5s, so you can fire 2 LRM-20s + 4 LRM-5s (essentially 3 LRM-20s) with no punishment.

[Greyboots]

Victor Morson, on 17 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Making an energy weapons guide without bringing up Ghost Heat and all the ways it brutally punishes the energy weapon user is a massive oversight. Esp. in a guide for new people.

It's not an oversight, I don't agree with you. I believe that Ghost Heat brutally punishes certain loadouts and is perfectly capable of punishing ACs as well (particularly AC20's and AC2's).

Since Medium Lasers can fire 6 at a time without a penalty and many other can be fired in pairs, I just can't see any justification for the idea that Ghost Heat punishes all energy weapon players. This is exactly why I posted the video I posted - 1 ERPPC, 3 medium lasers, no ghost heat. A 90 ton mech running 2 ERPPCs and 6 Medium Lasers would, likewise, suffer no ghost heat but is still likely to present the player with heat issues.

These things being the case, the idea that Ghost Heat punishes all Energy Weapon players cannot be true.

You can still fire 4 ERPPCs for no ghost heat, you just fire 2 and then the other 2 more than half a second later.

This is one of the reasons for this post. What a lot of newer players especially are assuming that all their heat problems are because of Ghost Heat. 4 ERPPCs are going to overheat you in the end no matter what because no mech can handle a continuous 15 heat per second that firing 4 ERPPCs entails.

ACs are definately about raw power, Energy Weapon mechs are about balance.

Edited by Greyboots, 17 November 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[Greyboots]

Updated to reflect some of the input of Koniving.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 17 November 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

With flamers you could cover them or simply state it's better to avoid them for now.

As an avid Flamer user, I suppose you can say the weapon is really not in a good place when Koniving of all people has this to say about it.

[Koniving]

Most recent Flamer Stalker vids.

Spoiler

Hard rush. Constantly hit by SRM ghost heat without knowing it at the time.


Ambush.

New vids are soon to come later this month.