105 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Training Instructor, on 19 November 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

People in MWO are filling the role of sharpshooter, not sniper.

If it were to scale, a true sniper mech would be mounting a weapon that doesn't currently exist in game: an extremely high velocity long-distance armor-piercing round with the capability of delivering consistent one-hit lethality to the torso of another mech from 3-5km away.

The current record for human snipers is held by a British sniper I believe, from almost 2500m away. It was previously held by a Canadian who hit a Taliban gunman from 2400m. There are several other notable kill shots from 2000+ meters.

Or the Gauss... If MWO players weren't afraid of dying. And the Torso is easy, Putting the eye out of an Atlas at those ranges is the bomb!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 November 2013 - 05:00 AM.

[627]

Entail, on 18 November 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

You have obviously not experienced the 2 ER PPC, 2 GR firebrand.

lolwut?
FIREBRAND

something like this? Good luck! I bet you don't make it through the ammo or past a third PPC-salvo before you die.

I think "long range combat" is still viable and fairly often used. Try to stick your head out on tourmaline and you'll get your answer.
What do you have for long range:

PPC
ER-PPC
ER-LL
AC2
AC5
Gauss

So plenty of choices with gauss and ER-PPC being the obvious ones.
So where's the problem?

Or is this just a hidden rant about gauss mechanics? Especially the gauss is now a long range tool with that speed improvement. And if you don't get that firing mechanic... well maybe you should take some PPCs and Heatsinks with you.

[Joseph Mallan]

627, on 19 November 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

lolwut?
FIREBRAND

something like this? Good luck! I bet you don't make it through the ammo or past a third PPC-salvo before you die.

I think "long range combat" is still viable and fairly often used. Try to stick your head out on tourmaline and you'll get your answer.
What do you have for long range:

PPC
ER-PPC
ER-LL
AC2
AC5
Gauss

So plenty of choices with gauss and ER-PPC being the obvious ones.
So where's the problem?

Or is this just a hidden rant about gauss mechanics? Especially the gauss is now a long range tool with that speed improvement. And if you don't get that firing mechanic... well maybe you should take some PPCs and Heatsinks with you.

There is a great distance between long rang combat and Sniping, 627. A Sniper can consistently head cap at 800m.

[Rhaythe]

Jaguar Prime, on 18 November 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Truthfully, I hate brawling. So I have to ask, What about my style of play?

Adapt.

[Rasc4l]

Training Instructor, on 19 November 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

People in MWO are filling the role of sharpshooter, not sniper.

If it were to scale, a true sniper mech would be mounting a weapon that doesn't currently exist in game: an extremely high velocity long-distance armor-piercing round with the capability of delivering consistent one-hit lethality to the torso of another mech from 3-5km away.

The current record for human snipers is held by a British sniper I believe, from almost 2500m away. It was previously held by a Canadian who hit a Taliban gunman from 2400m. There are several other notable kill shots from 2000+ meters.

Any sniper thread in the Internet is incomplete until Simo Häyhä is mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Simo_Hayha

Didn't even use a scope, because it would make his head an easier target and the reflection can give you away.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rhaythe, on 19 November 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Adapt.

Not so much Adapt. We are playing a combat game, Sniper is a Combat MOS. Being a good Sniper is a rare gem. This game makes for a bad time for a true Sniper. A real Sniper would never miss in the ranges we fight at.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

Or the Gauss... If MWO players weren't afraid of dying. And the Torso is easy, Putting the eye out of an Atlas at those ranges is the bomb!

To deliver a single kill shot - you need two GaussRifles and the Range is ~920m - at least if my calculations for damage drop of is right

Its 970m if you are not affraid of the Hot Death - with 3 ER-PPCs.
630 for a tripple AC 10 combination (810 if possible for 4 AC 10)

940 for 2 ERPPCs and 2 AC 5

OK have the KIng - with a target standing still:
2 UAC 5s(Double tap) and 2 ERPPCs
1 Gauss 2 ERPPC
1070m for both

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 November 2013 - 05:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 19 November 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

To deliver a single kill shot - you need two GaussRifles and the Range is ~920m - at least if my calculations for damage drop of is right

Its 970m if you are not affraid of the Hot Death - with 3 ER-PPCs.
630 for a tripple AC 10 combination (810 if possible for 4 AC 10)

940 for 2 ERPPCs and 2 AC 5

OK have the KIng - with a target standing still:
2 UAC 5s(Double tap) and 2 ERPPCs
1 Gauss 2 ERPPC
1070m for both

Thanks for these figures. When I start to die at these ranges in single shots, I will be complimenting the Sniper capable of doing so!

[Shadey99]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

I say this as a Marine rifle expert. I can put 7 of 10 rounds in a man sized target's head at 500m, AND I am not Sniper material. Unless you are putting 99 out of 100 rounds into a target the size of a beer can at 500m, Sniping should not be a thing most can do.

I was never in the military, but because of my uncle I did get a chance to do the marksmanship test on the actual rifle range used for that. I scored high enough that if I was military I'd be able to take designated marksman (DM) or squad designated marksman (SDM) training.

Now that was... Almost 15 years ago and I'm not nearly as accurate in MWO, but I find it really hard to hit targets at extreme ranges. Alot of this is probably due to really lacking speed of many ballistic projectiles. I mean a MK12 SPR has a 500m effective range and a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s (hence a typical target is sub-1 seconds to hit). And while the speed in MWO seems high in comparison it can easily take more than 1 second to hit a target unless your up in someones face.

For some ideas on real world ranges and weapons...

[Joseph Mallan]

Shadey99, on 19 November 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

I was never in the military, but because of my uncle I did get a chance to do the marksmanship test on the actual rifle range used for that. I scored high enough that if I was military I'd be able to take designated marksman (DM) or squad designated marksman (SDM) training.

Now that was... Almost 15 years ago and I'm not nearly as accurate in MWO, but I find it really hard to hit targets at extreme ranges. Alot of this is probably due to really lacking speed of many ballistic projectiles. I mean a MK12 SPR has a 500m effective range and a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s (hence a typical target is sub-1 seconds to hit). And while the speed in MWO seems high in comparison it can easily take more than 1 second to hit a target unless your up in someones face.

For some ideas on real world ranges and weapons...

I have to laugh just a little. Not at you, but at the included picture. All those rifles are equipped with a scope! I used the iron sites on the M-16 to do what I did. To have had a scope while qualifying!

[627]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

There is a great distance between long rang combat and Sniping, 627. A Sniper can consistently head cap at 800m.

that is exactly why i wrote it this way and didn't call it "sniping" - there's no uber weapon for long range instakill.


you need what 38,5 damage for a headshot, that's 4 ER-PPCs and no one uses them anymore.

[Boris The Spider]

Sorry, but I reject the concept of 40 foot tall robot snipers. You are a best a field artillery piece and all the enemy team has to do to render you impotent is to move a light mech into your vicinity. If you are going to bring 80+ tonnes with 500 points of armour, make sure it goes at the front of the battle, not sitting at the back reversing round in circles trying to hit a locust while your entire team gets ripped apart in the brawl. Do be sure though, that once your entire team is reduced to smouldering slag and you manage to score to a couple of cheap kills off their efforts, to log onto the forums and complain that even with 600 damage and 4 kills you couldn’t carry your team to victory.

[Sandpit]

Shadey99, on 19 November 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

I was never in the military, but because of my uncle I did get a chance to do the marksmanship test on the actual rifle range used for that. I scored high enough that if I was military I'd be able to take designated marksman (DM) or squad designated marksman (SDM) training.

Now that was... Almost 15 years ago and I'm not nearly as accurate in MWO, but I find it really hard to hit targets at extreme ranges. Alot of this is probably due to really lacking speed of many ballistic projectiles. I mean a MK12 SPR has a 500m effective range and a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s (hence a typical target is sub-1 seconds to hit). And while the speed in MWO seems high in comparison it can easily take more than 1 second to hit a target unless your up in someones face.

For some ideas on real world ranges and weapons...

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

I have to laugh just a little. Not at you, but at the included picture. All those rifles are equipped with a scope! I used the iron sites on the M-16 to do what I did. To have had a scope while qualifying!

Yea I can hit a man sized target at 500 meters all day long with a good zero and iron sights with an M-16, but Joseph I think they've just about gone to scopes for everything now. I know a younger marine and he qualed with a scope IIRC

[Joseph Mallan]

Boris The Spider, on 19 November 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Sorry, but I reject the concept of 40 foot tall robot snipers. You are a best a field artillery piece and all the enemy team has to do to render you impotent is to move a light mech into your vicinity. If you are going to bring 80+ tonnes with 500 points of armour, make sure it goes at the front of the battle, not sitting at the back reversing round in circles trying to hit a locust while your entire team gets ripped apart in the brawl. Do be sure though, that once your entire team is reduced to smouldering slag and you manage to score to a couple of cheap kills off their efforts, to log onto the forums and complain that even with 600 damage and 4 kills you couldn’t carry your team to victory.

So an Abrams should not be killing/destroying enemy/hard points from 2-4 miles away from the front? We should forward your brilliant military tactics to he top brass immediately!

Sandpit, on 19 November 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Yea I can hit a man sized target at 500 meters all day long with a good zero and iron sights with an M-16, but Joseph I think they've just about gone to scopes for everything now. I know a younger marine and he qualed with a scope IIRC

Spoiled! I'd have been a sniper if I had a scope during qualification! 7 of 10 rounds in just the head of the target you see in the Pict at 500m using iron sites!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 November 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[Zerberoff]

OneEyed Jack, on 18 November 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

I'm sorry, aside from leaving your team hanging while you hide somewhere taking potshots, how is it not viable? Because you want more damage? You think you should be able to put out the same damage at long range that a brawler has to get in close to do, and maintain that damage at short range, thereby suffering zero downsides?

Boris The Spider, on 19 November 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Sorry, but I reject the concept of 40 foot tall robot snipers. You are a best a field artillery piece and all the enemy team has to do to render you impotent is to move a light mech into your vicinity. If you are going to bring 80+ tonnes with 500 points of armour, make sure it goes at the front of the battle, not sitting at the back reversing round in circles trying to hit a locust while your entire team gets ripped apart in the brawl. Do be sure though, that once your entire team is reduced to smouldering slag and you manage to score to a couple of cheap kills off their efforts, to log onto the forums and complain that even with 600 damage and 4 kills you couldn’t carry your team to victory.

... i just want to like them more Times

[psihius]

Sorry, but Dual Gaus Catapult/Jaggermech still makes me {Scrap} my pants like hell and seek immediate cover. They are just not that abundant like they where and not many can handle close-range combat with gaus changes that where implemented. So now this is a skilled pilot ninche, who are trully great at it.

[Joseph Mallan]

psihius, on 19 November 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Sorry, but Dual Gaus Catapult/Jaggermech still makes me {Scrap} my pants like hell and seek immediate cover. They are just not that abundant like they where and not many can handle close-range combat with gaus changes that where implemented. So now this is a skilled pilot ninche, who are trully great at it.

You should take cover when you see one! Staying out in the open v a Hammer of the gods payload is stupid! You sir are not stupid.

[Shadey99]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

I have to laugh just a little. Not at you, but at the included picture. All those rifles are equipped with a scope! I used the iron sites on the M-16 to do what I did. To have had a scope while qualifying!

I actually didn't have a scope when 'qualifying', but these days all the weapons in use for DM/SDM have scopes and hence the picture with all scoped rifles...

Sandpit, on 19 November 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Yea I can hit a man sized target at 500 meters all day long with a good zero and iron sights with an M-16, but Joseph I think they've just about gone to scopes for everything now. I know a younger marine and he qualed with a scope IIRC

Yeah, from my understanding everything has scopes now... Heck, things like 'red dot' holographic sights are very common for infantry. No magnification to those, but they are a 'targeting assist'.

[psihius]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

You should take cover when you see one! Staying out in the open v a Hammer of the gods payload is stupid! You sir are not stupid.

When you don't see it comming, it does not matter if you are in the open or hiding, They are like ghosts - the only thing you see is a gaus hit splash on your armor and nothing around for a 1km+....

[Zerberoff]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

You should take cover when you see one! Staying out in the open v a Hammer of the gods payload is stupid! You sir are not stupid.

...but this is the problem, people ARE taking cover and avoid the open Landscape, now all those tiny little Snipers dont have any Targets anymore and since they dont wanna move from there coozy Sniping spot, they coming here and whine about that Sniping isnt viewable anymore