105 replies to this topic

[Jaguar Prime]

Trauglodyte, on 19 November 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

I would say that this is already possible. The thing is that in order to have 4 mechs dedicated only to effective sniping (ie, not slamming away mindlessly with long ranged weapons doing nothing), you've got to have 8 badass front line mechs maintaining battleground integrity and forcing the enemy into your lanes of fire while being smart enough not to get blown to Hell and back. On top of that, as a group of snipers, you've got to have the where withall to know where to be, when to move, and where to expect the enemy to maximize your potential all while trying to avoid the groups that would eat you alive (and having 3 other teammates being smart enough to target said Lights). It is plausable but very hard to enact.

You have an idea of what I'm asking for. The thing is it should not be that hard to enact. This was normal in competitive drops in MW4. And at one point you could pull this off in this game. But the game is biased towards fights at 600m or less now. In my opinion, it should not be. Long range engagements should be just as viable as close range. And regardless what some people say, there is nothing cowardly about playing at long range.

[Gunbuster]

Isn't bad sniping partially a product of the maps?

Sniping would be an actual surprise if it wasn't always a start at the edge, meet in the middle via two or three paths scenario.

[Durant Carlyle]

It's not cowardly when people want to snipe, but it sure is boring for the rest of the team when the majority want to do that.

I've been in matches where at least half of both teams were running sniper and/or poptart builds. The few close-range 'Mechs went out roaming and engaged where we could, but other than that, nothing much happened. The snipers took potshots at each other but never really engaged. Some of those matches timed out because nobody wanted to actually fight. Others were cap wins by the surviving 'Mechs. The outcome was never actually decided by the sniper majority.

Long-range engagements are balanced just the way they are. If you can find a good spot and you are accurate with your shots, you can kill just as easily from range as a brawler can from close up. The difference is that it's far easier to avoid a sniper. Having a couple of snipers on each team is a good thing, but more than that really isn't.

I'm sorry that you cannot be Super SharpShooter Sam, getting kills from 2,000 meters out. That just wouldn't be a fun game for the non-sniping majority.

[LordBraxton]

I wreck **** at 1000+ all the time with my AC5s\2s

What game are you playing?

Try advanced zoom it works wonders

[Trauglodyte]

LordBraxton, on 20 November 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

I wreck **** at 1000+ all the time with my AC5s\2s

What game are you playing?

Try advanced zoom it works wonders

I hate Advanced Zoom. Every time that I die, there is someone in game using Advanced Zoom to target someone at like 400m or using the module for a weapon that has no need to be used (ie, LRMs or a Large Laser). Its like ****** candy for bads.

[Davers]

Khobai, on 18 November 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

better question is when will brawling become viable again? sniping has dominated the metagame for far too long. We need strong SRMs to restore brawling back to its rightful place.

Yesterday I saw a guy take out a light with SRMS and I got totally messed up by a D-DC 3SRM6 Atlas in what felt like one alpha in a Cataphract. I was actually wondering if they had slipped some kind of SRM buff into last patch.

[Voivode]

Jaguar Prime, on 18 November 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Hmm, so I'm gonna assume you like to brawl? Seriously, All I expect is to do enough damage that I can kill the clown running straight at me from over 800m before he gets to me. And I mean dude is in the open and not taking cover.

From the sound of this sniping might not be your game. Unless you're talking about a 171kph commando this shouldn't be a problem.

[St4LkeRxF]

Davers, on 20 November 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Yesterday I saw a guy take out a light with SRMS and I got totally messed up by a D-DC 3SRM6 Atlas in what felt like one alpha in a Cataphract. I was actually wondering if they had slipped some kind of SRM buff into last patch.

Today killed Raven and Locust with SRMs but then came BJ and they didn't register at all, so i think it is still hit or miss for SRMs.

[Joseph Mallan]

Razuko, on 19 November 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Only way being a true sniper would be acceptable in this game imo is if you can only shoot while standing still with some sort of player activated planted-stabilizing mechanism, have limited loadout and tonnage.

That in mind... Sitting in the back like a coward is not fun. It's not fun for your team mates who are now soaking up more damage from the enemy because you are off hiding in the back rather than mixing it up with them and helping to spread the damage around. While you're in your tree stand the enemy will be picking off your team one by one. Leaving only the uber special sniper squad to poo themselves when the enemy runs up on them.

So your team isn't using overlapping fields of fire to put harm on those same enemies? Did you just call Snipers Cowards? Bit your tongue an sit down.

[Finn McShae]

Accurate fire from 800+ meters still happens quite a bit, I do it on occasion depending on the map.

I hope the high, 1 hit, alpha from 1000 meters stays gone, gone, gone. That was annoying as heck since if you can do that with ERPPC or ERLaser and STILL brawl OK with the same weapons.... why ever do anything different? Yay for everyone running one build again.

That said, when they add Long Tom or Arrow IV and if it can take people out from way far away, but if there are drawbacks up close (weight, minimum range, etc) then I'm all for snipers getting their snipe on.

Edited by Finn McShae, 20 November 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Mystere]

Razuko, on 19 November 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Sitting in the back like a coward is not fun ...

Hmm, the last time I went on sniper duty, people were ducking for the nearest cover and calling for their mother. Those sound like cowards to me.

[Ngamok]

Sniping still happens. Not sure what games you play here.

[Ngamok]

Jaguar Prime, on 18 November 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

From my observations, most serious engagements start around 600 - 700m. With a few people taking pot shots with ERppc's outside that. And maybe, just maybe a Gauss Rifle if someone has one in the match. I have not seen a battle since the recent changes where a few guys can take ERppc's and Guass Rifles and make a impact on a battle from 800+ meters.

On this, most maps don't have good hang back and snipe spots so easily. Sure you can do it but unless you are going to hang back by yourself, only the larger maps have this. Most fights start happening at 600-700 like you say with the occassional long range shot prior.

Alpine Peaks is all sniping for a good part of it till someone pushes. Same with Terra Therma unless the whole team is flanking. Every other map has one good spot to snipe from and someone is always at that good spot.

[Oppresor]

Sorry folks, I had to work late last night so missed out on this one until now. As you all know I operate several variations of Atlai as Primary role Sniper, the one thing that I have had serious difficulty in coming to terms with is the lack of a true Sniper weapon. Yes we have the Gauss rifle and ERPPC's, but the range for both is well under what I consider to be that of a Sniper weapon. Realistically a Sniper weapon should have a start range at 1km ad go out to at least 2km's.

Look at it another way; what is the point in having a 4xZoom module and or an Advanced sensor module (for LRM Snipers) if you can't shoot out to the range that they will allow you to accurately engage at.

At the very least we should have access to the Light Gauss with its 1200m range. (MechWarrior BattleTech Reference MWBTRv.4-AA$

[Durant Carlyle]

We already have weapons that can go farther than 1200 meters. Weapons in BattleTech were not meant to have double or triple their base ranges like we have in MW:O. A standard Gauss Rifle is a sniper weapon, as is the AC/2 and the ERPPC and ERLL.

BTW, a Light Gauss Rifle has an optimal range of 750 meters. That would make for a max range of 2250 meters in MW:O, unless they mess with the ranges like they did with the AC/5 (which should be 540/1620 instead of the 620/1700 that it is now -- why the 80 meter buff?). But anyway...

LOL @ "LRM sniper"

[GRiPSViGiL]

Sniping is very viable but it is limited in that even the 4X module doesn't allow you to benefit from really being out at great distances. I think an 8X module is needed along with perhaps a gauss ammo that would allow the damage to maintain 15 at 1000m range.

Or maybe just a module to extend damage range of ERPPC and gauss weapons.

In all honesty though there are not a lot of places in maps that extending the range of damage can be utilized to its maximum effectiveness considering how easy it for targets to reach cover the opportunities will be few and short lived.

[627]

Jaguar Prime, on 19 November 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

You have an idea of what I'm asking for. The thing is it should not be that hard to enact. This was normal in competitive drops in MW4. And at one point you could pull this off in this game. But the game is biased towards fights at 600m or less now. In my opinion, it should not be. Long range engagements should be just as viable as close range. And regardless what some people say, there is nothing cowardly about playing at long range.

Maybe I'm biased but in the lore (which is the basis for this game) there was nearly no sniping or long range in the Inner Sphere. Those fellow mechwarriors were happy if they hit a mech in 600m let alone which component they hit. Better targeting came with the clans and it took time to adapt.

And for MW4, all you can here about MW4 gameplay is "all those poptarts"

We had what, 8 month domination of PPC/Gauss meta and this was not fun, you could play the same way or you'd be a lone stranger on the field. This has changed now and you can fight in all ranges (which is a good thing).
So I don't get what you want, you still can take a gauss kitty and kill with it from long range (and even from short range). All the tools are there, you just have to be capable to use them.

Joseph Mallan, on 20 November 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Did you just call Snipers Cowards? Bit your tongue an sit down.

Jo, maybe we could leave real life out of this discussion? This is a video game, played by gamers from every age and it uses video game terms. So if anyone here refers to "sniper" he doesn't mean a 2man team in chewbacca camo laying in the dust for 6 days, counting clouds and waiting for a shot.

This is more a player with a long range boomstick that sucks in close quarters.
And if you look at other games, "snipers" get always a hard nerf bat. There's always sway and battlefield for example has this reflexion thing if you use a scope.

This is not an issue of military tactics, this is an issue of gameplay balance. Balanced weapons don't mean "I can kill anyone at any range" but more "I have to work hard to get a kill with this long range weapon, like every other player with his choice of weapon, too."

Edited by 627, 20 November 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

627, on 20 November 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Maybe I'm biased but in the lore (which is the basis for this game) there was nearly no sniping or long range in the Inner Sphere. Those fellow mechwarriors were happy if they hit a mech in 600m let alone which component they hit. Better targeting came with the clans and it took time to adapt.

And for MW4, all you can here about MW4 gameplay is "all those poptarts"

We had what, 8 month domination of PPC/Gauss meta and this was not fun, you could play the same way or you'd be a lone stranger on the field. This has changed now and you can fight in all ranges (which is a good thing).
So I don't get what you want, you still can take a gauss kitty and kill with it from long range (and even from short range). All the tools are there, you just have to be capable to use them.



Jo, maybe we could leave real life out of this discussion? This is a video game, played by gamers from every age and it uses video game terms. So if anyone here refers to "sniper" he doesn't mean a 2man team in chewbacca camo laying in the dust for 6 days, counting clouds and waiting for a shot.

This is more a player with a long range boomstick that sucks in close quarters.
And if you look at other games, "snipers" get always a hard nerf bat. There's always sway and battlefield for example has this reflexion thing if you use a scope.

This is not an issue of military tactics, this is an issue of gameplay balance. Balanced weapons don't mean "I can kill anyone at any range" but more "I have to work hard to get a kill with this long range weapon, like every other player with his choice of weapon, too."

It is a futuristic military game that needs to incorporate military tactics to be played properly.

I am a video gamer from as far back as the late 80's.

Then Snipers need a Buff not a Nerf. Cause I don't have to work all that hard to chalk up kills in a brawl. If players cannot handle being killed at range by a really good shot, they are playing the wrong game.

I have seen a 10 year old, die in the 1st turn on TT in a Bloodname Tournament. One and done game, he stayed to cheer for the winner. You telling me some of us are not as mature as that young man?

[627]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

It is a futuristic military game that needs to incorporate military tactics to be played properly.

Military tactics is one thing, gettin' upset because people find it lame that someone hides in the back to don't get shot and so calling him "coward" is another. That's what I mean by saying leave the real life out

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Then Snipers need a Buff not a Nerf. Cause I don't have to work all that hard to chalk up kills in a brawl.

Actually it's not hard to get a long range kill either. You can lurm them to death or just pack dual gauss and there you go. Maybe mix a PPC ar some ER-LL in there and you're still pretty dangerous in every range.

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

If players cannot handle being killed at range by a really good shot, they are playing the wrong game.

I have seen a 10 year old, die in the 1st turn on TT in a Bloodname Tournament. One and done game, he stayed to cheer for the winner. You telling me some of us are not as mature as that young man?

I think this is the greatest issue we have, not only here but nearly in every online shooter. Can all be broken down to:

• "If players cannot handle being killed"

Look at BF3, they didn't had a sniper problem but there were some "OP"-Weapons for close quarters. Those 14year olds cried to hell and back to mommy only to get all weapons nerfed down to nearly the same level.

(Newer) gamers nowadays are so conditioned to win and to always win and get help everytime they struggle just a little bit that they can't stand a defeat. The game has to be broken if you can't win anymore, all the time.

And just to prove this development, anyone saw "ryse" for xbox one? there are finishing quicktime events, even if you fail to hit that flashing button the finisher succeeds, no matter if you press or not. Or take call of duty covert ops, you could do the game without shooting anyone (beside one script where you have to), justrun with the pack.

This is the problem here, not some "long rang is not viable" - it's hard to say that but the right answer here imho is:

Learn 2 play.

[Livewyr]

sniping is pointless when there are weapons line the AC 5 and 2 that can reach as far out father than the "sniper rifle" Gauss..  single shot charge up weapon? Why, when you can annoy the hell out of someone at long range going plink plink plink with an AC2?

Edited by Livewyr, 22 November 2013 - 03:02 AM.