9 replies to this topic

[RapierE01]

Hi Guys n Girls. I have a Question about Clan Battle Tactics and Honour Rules in Battles against the Inner sphere. During the Invasion the Clans had to learn that the Warriors of the Inner Sphere doesnt respect their rules of Honour. IS Mechs fired on single Clan Opponents, Ambushes were prepared or IS Commanders made wrong Statements about their Troops during Batchall.

What was the Clans Reaction on such honourless Tactics? Especially after they were betrayed in a Batchall on World 1 what was the Reaction for the attack on the next Planet?

How the Batchall has changed during the bidding among the Clan Battlecommanders?


I was looking through the Internet but i cant find an answer. Hope you can help me.

(I hope you can understand what i want so say because English is not my native Language )

Edited by RapierE01, 18 November 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[Grey Black]

Well, the first question is, define "Betrayed". What would often happen at first when the Clans started the invasion is they would call up the commander in system and say, "What are your defending forces?", to which the IS people sent their force list and would prepare accordingly. One thing that the IS eventually started doing was fudging the reports slightly. For example, Hohiro Kurita and his forces were assigned to a new batallion with no fighting experience/created a new batallion on Wolcott. When the Clans asked what they were defending with, they responded, "Oh, just this newly created unit." The clanners bid accordingly and lost hard, but did not do anything beyond that, even leaving Wolcott alone. Towards the end, the Clans caught on that the IS was fudging like this more and more and eventually it became expected to refuse a Batchall with the IS if foul play was to be expected.

In terms of honorable combat, there are 4 different levels, level 1 being the strictest (i.e. never violate the combat rules), level 4 being the least restrictive (i.e. "They're dezgra, smite them with holy fire and PPCs."). The Inner Sphere forces were usually held to a level 3 honor rules, which is to say, "As long as they're playing by the rules, fine. As soon as they step out of line, though, smite them with PPCs hardcore." In fact, it even became normal to say that with IS forces, you wouldn't worry too much about Zellbrigen, just worry about beating them hard.

I'm sure someone will come along and give a more in depth explanation, but this is the gist of it.

[Kenyon Burguess]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen "During the Clan Invasion the rules of zellbrigen lapsed, primarily because the Inner Sphere had no concept of Clan cultural norms and, in some cases, exploited them for "underhanded" victories. By the end of the campaign zellbrigen had all but died out in several Clans, while most still reserve it for inter-Clan confrontations or against worthy Inner Sphere warriors"

there are a few funny stories on that wiki, if you can find them, on how IS worlds challenged the clans to sports events, and just tricked them in general.

so TLDR neither side needs to worry about honor. just play the game.

[Manei Domini Krigg]

Answer is simple - first time (before we can use clantech with IS mechs) clanners play only solo (cant make any group if you use clanmech). Later when IS mechs will can use clantech - clanplayers will can play together.

[RapierE01]

Its not about the Gameplay its only about the Battle logic. (Lore, Technical Readouts, Sourcebooks etc. )

For Example you are Battlecommander on Planet A. You landed your Force and fought the Enemy. The Inner Sphere Warriors accept the Trials of you Pilots but shoot them down using the Batchall Situation for an Ambush (they had Contact with Clan Units before and understand their rules) Many of your Mechs were destoryed during the fights but you finally got the Planet. So the informations about the honourless fight is availible for all Elements of the Battlegroup.

After this your Force arrive on the next Planet hold by Inner Sphere Forces. What will be the Reaction of the Battlecommanders including you during the Preperation of the next Planetary Invasion?



And the other question is. If you see that you cannot win a fight against an Enemy Force the Rules say you can call in the Forces of the last bidding stage. What does that mean in detail?
If you forelast bidding had been 4 Trinary Stars of Mechs and a Star of Aerospace Fighters. In the last Stage your Bidding exclude the Aerospae Star to win the Batchall. Now there is a Situation were you need to call in the Forces of the last Stage so can you only call in the Star of Aerospace fighters or a new Trinary of Battlemechs and a Aerospace Star?

Or am i completely wrong?

Edited by RapierE01, 18 November 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[CyclonerM]

My understanding is this -but i might be wrong-:

Two commanders bid to lead the assault on a planet.
-Commander A bids 2 Trinaries of 'Mechs, a Star of Elementals and a Star of Aerospace Fighters.
-Commander B bids 2 Trinaries of 'Mechs and a Star of ASFs, bidding away the Elementals.
-Commander A bids only 2 Trinaries of 'Mechs. He wins the bidding.

He leads his 'Mechs in battle: it takes place on a big plain; the opponents are better than expected. Commander A realizes that a Star of Aerospace Fighters would be very effective and would change the battle. He could call the ASF Star of the other commander's last bid, but doing so he losts his honor.
And you know a victory without honor is an empty victory.

Edited by CyclonerM, 19 November 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[dal10]

Pretty sure it is not a loss of honor to use the last bid.

[CyclonerM]

dal10, on 21 November 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Pretty sure it is not a loss of honor to use the last bid.

It would not make sense. I mean, why bidding down to the cutdown then? You get to lead the attack and then you call your reserves forces. Feels kinda wasteful and not honorable, quiaff?

[dal10]

if i remember right you can call up to the previous bid with no loss of face. if that is still not enough you can call up to the opening bid, but that requires the opposing bidders permission and is a big honor hit.

plus if you do call the previous bid forces you would be fighting with more forces overall meaning that it would be a less honory victory. since you wouldn't be winning with as few people, that alone would probably keep it from being abused.

Edited by dal10, 21 November 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Well at least the commander should have an commanding officer - that means if a Galaxy Commander overlook the battle and think that his Star Colonel is not capable of winning under current conditions - he must force the Colonel to retreat and - allow the second Star Colonel to attack - and he could use ASFs and 2 Trinarys.

At least its important to know what are the conditions?
Is the planet important
are my troops important - or are those trinaries in combat questionable old men and woman in old mechs and i want to have new Mechs and Warriors in my ranks.
And its the last chance for that old Star Colonel to win a battle before he is removed from front line duties.

While fighting IS forces - it should be possible to use a former bid - for example when there are troops that appear from now where. And Clans can't be that stupid to think - well I don't know what forces are on that planet - i attack with a star because its a back water world and I don't expect any Mechs. But on planet i recognize o-**** all i see is Overlords and maybe two RCTs.
Well I move on - its my bid and now I kill me and my Star?
I don't think so.

However have you read those short novels "Onslaught?"
In the first Story it is clear that the next main advantage of Clan Troops was to reduce the reaction time of IS troops to almost zero.
"Two incomming dropshis...maybe they land there.... and so i could... .WTF -> HOT DROP - Sound the Alarm!"