132 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

Keep running into these guys, and they're definitely not chainfiring those two AC20s.

It's not the heat that bothers me as much as the pinpoint convergence at pointblank range from mechs that cannot move their arms side to side. Their arms are locked to the torso!

Imagine a man is standing four feet in front of you and you're wearing full body armor. He is holding two .45 caliber hand pistols and holding them perfectly straight, shoulder width apart, at chest level, with a bar attached across the middle preventing him from moving his arms closer together, or twisting his wrists inward. Now, he's going to fire these pistols simultaneously. Would you prefer that they fire at shoulder width apart, or magically point directly into your center?

There needs to be a convergence trade off for missing lower arm actuators when you're missing them in both arms. Quit defying the laws of physics and challenge the PGI coders to actually do something right for once. If you can't fix the AC20 boating with ghost heat, fix it with minimum range convergence. 250 meters would be cool. Given the fact that they've refused to introduce any assaults that can boat autocannons, especially the AC20, and it would appear that they're well aware of the issue, but either powerless to fix it, or not technically competent enough to do so.

[Lefty Lucy]

I don't know what to tell you. They're a good build in pug matches, but not dominating at all. I'm not sure why it deserves more of a nerf.

[Tombstoner]

Training Instructor, on 14 November 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Keep running into these guys, and they're definitely not chainfiring those two AC20s.

It's not the heat that bothers me as much as the pinpoint convergence at pointblank range from mechs that cannot move their arms side to side. Their arms are locked to the torso!

Imagine a man is standing four feet in front of you and you're wearing full body armor. He is holding two .45 caliber hand pistols and holding them perfectly straight, shoulder width apart, at chest level, with a bar attached across the middle preventing him from moving his arms closer together, or twisting his wrists inward. Now, he's going to fire these pistols simultaneously. Would you prefer that they fire at shoulder width apart, or magically point directly into your center?

There needs to be a convergence trade off for missing lower arm actuators when you're missing them in both arms. Quit defying the laws of physics and challenge the PGI coders to actually do something right for once. If you can't fix the AC20 boating with ghost heat, fix it with minimum range convergence. 250 meters would be cool. Given the fact that they've refused to introduce any assaults that can boat autocannons, especially the AC20, and it would appear that they're well aware of the issue, but either powerless to fix it, or not technically competent enough to do so.

what you describe is exactly what the man at the top wants. btw the ultra ac-20 will fix the boating issue.

[xRatas]

Try pointing your arms straight in front of you. Then try if you can manipulate those arms so that both hand's middle figers touch each others, by only using your shoulder actuators. I'd predict you can do that.

Then try pointing your nipples to same place and see if your torso mounted pointers are able to focus on same spot. Care to explain how that works in a manlike warmachine?

Feel free to add your center torso mounted cannon to same convergence point too, it might even work.

Edited by xRatas, 14 November 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Training Instructor, on 14 November 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Keep running into these guys, and they're definitely not chainfiring those two AC20s.

It's not the heat that bothers me as much as the pinpoint convergence at pointblank range from mechs that cannot move their arms side to side. Their arms are locked to the torso!

Imagine a man is standing four feet in front of you and you're wearing full body armor. He is holding two .45 caliber hand pistols and holding them perfectly straight, shoulder width apart, at chest level, with a bar attached across the middle preventing him from moving his arms closer together, or twisting his wrists inward. Now, he's going to fire these pistols simultaneously. Would you prefer that they fire at shoulder width apart, or magically point directly into your center?

There needs to be a convergence trade off for missing lower arm actuators when you're missing them in both arms. Quit defying the laws of physics and challenge the PGI coders to actually do something right for once. If you can't fix the AC20 boating with ghost heat, fix it with minimum range convergence. 250 meters would be cool. Given the fact that they've refused to introduce any assaults that can boat autocannons, especially the AC20, and it would appear that they're well aware of the issue, but either powerless to fix it, or not technically competent enough to do so.

Best convergence argument yet, hugging an ac40 Mech with fixed arms should not mean 40 damage on a single spot. Even under 100 or 50m would be nice.

[Bobdolemite]

xRatas, on 14 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Try pointing your arms straight in front of you. Then try if you can manipulate those arms so that both hand's middle figers touch each others, by only using your shoulder actuators. I'd predict you can do that.

Then try pointing your nipples to same place and see if your torso mounted pointers are able to focus on same spot. Care to explain how that works in a manlike warmachine?

Feel free to add your center torso mounted cannon to same convergence point too, it might even work.

As I have heard it explained the "nipples" in your example would rotate within their socket (if they had one) until they could converge at the same point your fingers are pointing to. This is not normally seen due to the perspective of the pilot behind the reticule. Though if you go into 3rd person you can watch it in action as it appears to snap into and out of focus causing the crosshairs and torso mounted weapons to dip toward one another (drag it across a friendly mech and watch the difference, also works on terrain)

I honestly dont have an issue with Jaggerbombs. Sure if I get ambushed by one it sucks, but in most cases I stay out of range or go for the side torsos and its not an issue.

I think in my dual AC-20 mech I can get a max of 3 alphas on a cool map before starting to cook my ammo. Short range, High heat, low ammo, vulnerable side torsos (doubled with XL), easy to destroy arms.... make the Jagerbomb into a subpar mech in "most" matches.

As an ambush predator though it excells, just dont expect it to live too long after showing its face (if your seen you will likely become enemy target #1)

[-Muta-]

Training Instructor, on 14 November 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Keep running into these guys, and they're definitely not chainfiring those two AC20s.

It's not the heat that bothers me as much as the pinpoint convergence at pointblank range from mechs that cannot move their arms side to side. Their arms are locked to the torso!

Imagine a man is standing four feet in front of you and you're wearing full body armor. He is holding two .45 caliber hand pistols and holding them perfectly straight, shoulder width apart, at chest level, with a bar attached across the middle preventing him from moving his arms closer together, or twisting his wrists inward. Now, he's going to fire these pistols simultaneously. Would you prefer that they fire at shoulder width apart, or magically point directly into your center?

There needs to be a convergence trade off for missing lower arm actuators when you're missing them in both arms. Quit defying the laws of physics and challenge the PGI coders to actually do something right for once. If you can't fix the AC20 boating with ghost heat, fix it with minimum range convergence. 250 meters would be cool. Given the fact that they've refused to introduce any assaults that can boat autocannons, especially the AC20, and it would appear that they're well aware of the issue, but either powerless to fix it, or not technically competent enough to do so.

Chuck Norris can even do it with x5 .45 caliber

[cSand]

Meh

Ghost doesn't stop 2xAC20.


I stop 2xAC20.

Just hopefully not more than 3 times otherwise I'm a dead man

[Thejuggla]

I like the idea for trade off of not having the actuator but I don't think an ac40 jäger is really a problem.

I see the suggestion of going for side torso I used to do that but now I find the legs is the best. I like the legs because they're easy to hit, you can't "twist" to spread out damage(unless you 180 and use your other leg to shield it) if you don't kill then can probably still cripple and when the armor is gone they'll most likely light up from ammo explosion. Had a couple 1 leg kills this week.

[Lightfoot]

To me, as a player of MW2-MW4 pvp, MWO's Mechs are just too weak and the mistake has been nerfing Inner Sphere tech to compensate. You never nerf Inner Sphere tech in a MechWarrior game that will eventually include Clan tech because Clan tech is so much better.

Even stranger is the heavy nerf to Gauss and PPCs, the only Inner Sphere weapons that could offer any challenge to Clan tech.

In MWO most Clan Heavies and Assaults will carry 2x UAC-20's (350 meters) because they are omni-mechs and it gets worse from there. PGI might be thinking, well we can tone Clan tech down, but you can't without removing the Clans altogether lore-wise. Especially if your mechs can't handle I.S. tech already.

I could see this back in summer 2012 so I have never asked for a nerf of anything, but instead advised PGI that their Mechs were too weak for the damage being done.

There is no viable nerf for 2xAC20, it's a common enough build. Most players running this on a Jager are slow and stripped down somehow so look-out for them and then range them. Easier when Gauss and PPCs worked, but it can still be done so long as you don't have an AC20. And that is the best solution. Self reliance, be pro-active about it, you know. (I don't even own a Jager by the way).

[Mcgral18]

Well, having the AC20s spread their damage over (4) 5 damage rounds, or (10) 2 damage rounds would make twisting to mitigate damage feasible, while still keeping them deadly if you do not twist.

From what I've read, there are only a few mechs that could fire a single shot AC20 without falling, even an atlas would fall if it wasn't braced, let alone two of them.

[CygnusX7]

Press R.
Look at the top right.
See more than 1 AC20 = stay away
Kill from distance.

Move on to the next opponent.

[Lyoto Machida]

cSand, on 14 November 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Meh

Ghost doesn't stop 2xAC20.


I stop 2xAC20.

Just hopefully not more than 3 times otherwise I'm a dead man

[101011]

You mean the heat nerf hasn't effected a weapons system that is virtually heatless to begin with? WHOA!

[Rizzelbizzeg]

xRatas, on 14 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

...
Then try pointing your nipples to same place and see if your torso mounted pointers are able to focus on same spot. Care to explain how that works in a manlike warmachine?
...

Ohhhh that's what those are for! I gotta get me some medium lasers to fill my torso slots, never knew I had the option!

[Sandpit]

I swear every time someone gets owned by a weapon this is what happens. Never mind that you have sensors that tell you what a mech is carrying from 1000 meters out and that any weapon beyond a medium range system will **** that mech build while it is next to helpless. never mind that LRMs, PPCs, AC10s, LLs, ER LLs, etc. will destroy that mech before it ever gets in range. We would rather jump on the forums and ask the devs to "fix" the game so that we don't get shot and killed be enemy mechs

[Graywar]

101011, on 14 November 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

You mean the heat nerf hasn't effected a weapons system that is virtually heatless to begin with? WHOA!

Heatless? An AC/20 produces lots of heat, almost as much as a large laser.

[General Taskeen]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

[Homeless Bill]

It's almost like a heat-based solution wasn't the right answer. I'm just waiting for a 2xAC/20 assault so everyone can **** their pants. The Jager is squishy, but can you imagine a Highlander with dual AC/20s? Delicious tears will be shed.

[DoktorVivi]

Homeless Bill, on 14 November 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

It's almost like a heat-based solution wasn't the right answer. I'm just waiting for a 2xAC/20 assault so everyone can **** their pants. The Jager is squishy, but can you imagine a Highlander with dual AC/20s? Delicious tears will be shed.

Or the King Crab. 100 tons, dual ac/20 and some assorted other weapons.