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Medium-Fu Out Of Practice


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#81 Captain Stiffy

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:02 AM

View PostArctourus, on 25 November 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

I'd prefer no delay myself, but I like the weapon. I outfitted this one like this because I wanted a change of pace. So many people have their three variants of shads outfitted as identically as possible.



when this game started (hence a founder) there were repairs as part of the game. Even though case wouldn't stop an xl from getting destroyed, I understand it made the damage much less expensive to repair. Thus, the inclusion of a case was important, even it if it isn't anymore. It's considered the proper way to build a mech (if you look, most of the purchaseable mechs with xls come with case if they hold ammunition.)


Well you do have a good point cannonically and I bow to your superior MechWarrior building knowledge because mine isn't super hot anymore... but in MWO it's different.

#82 Effectz

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:58 AM

Been running this recently it's fun to play,anything you can see you can shoot with the high mounted ac's

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d26e014de6646fa

#83 Vimeous

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 25 November 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Shad brawls fine with an XL in it. Just twist more. on that 2H, you leave so much firepower in the table. Being able to kill fast does as much to enhance survivability in a brawler as being able to take a beating. The PPC seems an odd duck choice, since a good portion of the time, in brawling it will be unavailable. And 3 SSRM and 3 MG is laughable.

At the very least, add ferro to your 2H, and free up another ton. Add a DHS and swap to an ER PPC so at least you can hit with more than spitwads at close range. Up armor that left arm and use it to absorb incoming fire.

The 2D2.......... the ac2 is basically a waste of tonnage, as the only thing a single ac2 does is suppression fire. Which only works against noobs.

And the 5M? Hot and not enough ammo. the PPCs and LB-X don't make very complimentary weapon groups. And no JJ? Take the most air mobile Shad and then ground it?

Not going to go out and call them bads, but I certainly would not fear any of them. Twist more. I run XLs in ALL of my Shads, and I tank damage better in it than in my Victor.


I understand where you're coming from. All were built on a low CB budget and with whatever I had to hand. If you accept XL's are a necessity only the 5M would be a 'complete' build.

On the 2H I'm happy without the XL for now. More budget = ERPPC.

I exclusively pug so the AC2 on the 2D2 is handy suppression but best for critical hits. Seems to work - k/d is over 2 so far which is unusual for me - though I need more matches to be sure. Mind you 2xLL/4xSSRM/XL300 is attractive

As for the 5M. Yes I'm doing it wrong but I've not found a JJ build I like. I've tried all sorts of builds including 2xAC5 but they require more face-time for the same damage. Chain the PPC's and keep the LBX for lights, anything under 90m and cooling. I prefer it to 2xAC5/ERPPC/XL280.

#84 LordBraxton

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:32 PM

View Postoneda, on 25 November 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:




In brawl, and especially 1 vs 1, situations I realized that I get the best results using an ac 10 as I can only briefly look at the other mech, shoot it, to then look away again or jump and fire the ssrms while flying. Thats how I take out other shadowhawks with ac 2s or ac 5s in a brawl. With anything smaller you can definitely get as good, or maybe even better, results. But not in the brawl as you face other heavy hitting mechs too long and take a lot more damage to your torso.

For mid to long range ac 5 or ac 2 is the choice of course.


this is the great thing about the shadowhawk

It is durable enough that you can run Heavy AC + Streak brawlers

Or run medium range fire support builds with Ultras\5s\2s

Personally I enjoy the 300-500 range bracket for my shawks, using lots of light ACs to apply DPS on enemies as they engage my allies.

So Much Suppression. (lets see if the advanced gyro counteracts this)

Either way the thing rocks

#85 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostVimeous, on 25 November 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I understand where you're coming from. All were built on a low CB budget and with whatever I had to hand. If you accept XL's are a necessity only the 5M would be a 'complete' build.

On the 2H I'm happy without the XL for now. More budget = ERPPC.

I exclusively pug so the AC2 on the 2D2 is handy suppression but best for critical hits. Seems to work - k/d is over 2 so far which is unusual for me - though I need more matches to be sure. Mind you 2xLL/4xSSRM/XL300 is attractive

As for the 5M. Yes I'm doing it wrong but I've not found a JJ build I like. I've tried all sorts of builds including 2xAC5 but they require more face-time for the same damage. Chain the PPC's and keep the LBX for lights, anything under 90m and cooling. I prefer it to 2xAC5/ERPPC/XL280.

ever try it with large lasers and a standard ac10? Beam duration of course might be an issue, but it runs cooler and has better mobility. Depends on ones play style, of course.

#86 LowSubmarino

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostLordBraxton, on 25 November 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:


this is the great thing about the shadowhawk

It is durable enough that you can run Heavy AC + Streak brawlers

Or run medium range fire support builds with Ultras\5s\2s

Personally I enjoy the 300-500 range bracket for my shawks, using lots of light ACs to apply DPS on enemies as they engage my allies.

So Much Suppression. (lets see if the advanced gyro counteracts this)

Either way the thing rocks


Totally, its a really versatile mech. The high mounted ac hardpoints are just great. It can basically do anything. I love it as a fast skirmisher though. Its so fast and agile it can take on assaults and then just jump away.

#87 Sephlock

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:55 PM

Slap on some streaks and a huge engine and bring the pain to light pilots. Just resign yourself to losing fights against competently piloted mediums/heavies/assaults a lot of the time... at least when pugging.

#88 LowSubmarino

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

View PostSephlock, on 25 November 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Slap on some streaks and a huge engine and bring the pain to light pilots. Just resign yourself to losing fights against competently piloted mediums/heavies/assaults a lot of the time... at least when pugging.



I run 3 streaks as part of my build. And I dont get beaten by mediums or heavies or assaults.

Not a lot at least :-P...

Edited by oneda, 25 November 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#89 Sephlock

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:16 PM

View Postoneda, on 25 November 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:



I run 3 streaks as part of my build. And I dont get beaten by mediums or heavies or assaults.

Not a lot at least :-P...

Granted, due to the current state of missiles, enemies will also be forced to run SSRMs, weaksauce LRMs which can't even hurt you at close range, are pitiful at long range, and are only just about poopy level at medium range, or SRMs which will heat **** you if you have "too many".

#90 LowSubmarino

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

View PostSephlock, on 25 November 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Granted, due to the current state of missiles, enemies will also be forced to run SSRMs, weaksauce LRMs which can't even hurt you at close range, are pitiful at long range, and are only just about poopy level at medium range, or SRMs which will heat **** you if you have "too many".



Srms are just not a good option in my opinion. I tried them a few times but unless your right in front of somebody they just arent reliable or precise enough. For me they have way too many disadvantages and are too easy to avoid by jumping around or by sheer speed.

What I would do is give them about 30 % of the ssrms tracking ability and, as a balance, reduce their dmg by 30 %.

That way they will fly somewhat in the general direction and will hit slow moving targets a lot better while at least "splashing" fast moving targets.

There is a lot of other options to make them more viable but right now I would always go for other options.

:-)

#91 Mercer Skye

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 02:23 PM

Ok, so some serious builds...

Ninja-Hawk (Move like a butterfly, sting like an Arrow IV)
Hawk-inator (Slow...ish and brutal, Atlas' best friend)
Spear-Hawk (Blasphemous to use MGuns in such a sweet-spot Ballistic point, but that Array tears up criticals once the LRMs have stripped the armor clean. Also, no real reason not to drop some LRM ammo for a bigger engine, I just like filling out critical slots.).

The SHD is by and far one of my favorite 'mechs ever, from TT to now, simply for just how amazingly versatile it is for just 55T.

And the only 'downside' to the SHD? Next week some other idea will strike my fancy, and I'll likely end up tearing them all down and building them back up. About the only thing that really ever stays the same on any of them is the Armor (Which I'll admit I was kind of lazy in Smurfy's, I tend to swap a decent bit to the front).

Not so serious builds;

Hobo with a Shotgun (aka-OverUnderHawk)
Turret-Hawk
Swiss Army Hawk

Second three are wretched FrankenMechs that came about more from boredom than anything.

I really, really do not recommend in any circumstances running the Swiss Army Hawk. It was a masochistic source of fun using all 6 weapon groups, ran out of ammo like it was going out of style, and while it could clear 3-400 damage a match, it reminded me while we may have six weapon groups, it is not exactly wise to utilize all of them for six different weapons.

The Turret Hawk is more of a joke build that came about from a buddy saying something along the lines of it possibly being fun to shoehorn a LRM40 into one of them (Actually I think it was more complaining about just how much the SHD gets away with being able to do). Yes, it is an atrocious abomination of a 'mech and does not come with a recommendation for usage. You walk slower than an Atlas, with less firepower than an Atlas, and die even quicker than an Atlas if swarmed by lights. I only put it up there because even with all of that, it was terribly fun to play with......for like five matches. (Curse you Alpine Peaks)

The OverUnderHawk however.....thing is surprisingly effective. And yes, Just dropping an A/C-20 into it and actually making it more competitive would be the prudent course, but that wasn't the point. Chainfiring LBXs on the 'cowboy' of 'mechs was the point. And it was wickedly fun.

Other acknowledgements go to the more streamlined 'Hawks. Quad Streaks, Double AC5, Trip 2's, 5/2 & PPC, and all the other stuff that 'dumbs down' the weapon groups into MB1 and MB2. They're extremely efficient, they're also terribly boring, but I highly recommend the builds for the sake of performance.

SHD is by far my favorite 'mech, at least from what we have access to, simply for the fact that it's one of the Inner Sphere's closest rigs resembling Clan Omni-mechs, and somehow, even when you build something crazy, silly, trollish, or outright dumb, it disturbingly has a way of still putting the hurt out, and standing it's ground.

The REAL question, for me, is how do you build something effective using it's max standard engine? STD 360 weighs in at 80% of the SHD's total weight. After armor? You're lucky if you have a ton of space left for a weapon. Sure, the SHD goes 116.6kph, but there's nothing on it to dish out the hurt. THERE is the puzzle.

Could rant about the SHD all day long, but I think that's enough for now ;)

Edited by Mercer Skye, 25 November 2013 - 02:37 PM.






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