21 replies to this topic

[RallyPoint]

** Revised based on feedback **
SDR-5D_Support_Spider

Dropped AMS and all ammo; not necessary since I'm sticking with the group and have ECM.
Dropped Med. Lasers

Added:
Med. Pulse Lasers x2 on left arm
TAG on torso to add to support role
Upgraded to endo steel structure

SDR-5D_Support_Spider

I'm a little skeptial the TAG will help much. If I'm sticking with the group then TAG'n targets is difficult. If I go flank to TAG then I risk loosing ECM coverage for my teamates.

We'll see how it pans out! If the TAG ends up being largely pointless then I'll throw on another laser and bump up firepower.

================================================================================
Original design:

SDR-5D_Harasser

ECM
AMS + AMS ammo x2
BEAGLE

4 Jump Jets
Doulbe Heatsinks x1
XL245 Engine

2 Med. Lasers

Rest of the tonnage spent on armor

Would like to free up some tonnage to get bigger lasers or a PPC. Something with more range. Probably go with endo, drop some AMS ammo or the whole AMS + ammo and get a bigger gun. But for now I'm enjoying it for what it is.

Edited by RallyPoint, 21 November 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[Gigastrike]

How do you intend you play it?

[The Great Unwashed]

1) You have no missiles and so do not benefit from BEAGLE advantages other than added sensor range: there is a module for that. Although the module and BEAGLE sensor range stack, as a scout you need to run and can close gaps to compensate for the lack of speed of your team. You can use BEAGLE but I wouldn't, especially since you already have ECM that can counter enemy ECM.
2) AMS on a light mech for support? The supportees should be bringing their own as you are not even near them while scouting. You might get hit with LRMS but on most maps you are quick enough to evade them. Also, 2 tons of ammo sounds a bit much.
3) You have no TAG to support your team LRMs
4) You have 1 Heatsink and smurfy says you have 107% heat efficiency (100% without). This means you will not need the heatsink at all.
5) You have nearly twice the space for ENDO to spend 1.5 tons. For an XL 255, for example, to run away from anything larger than a locust because even they outgun you and outrun you.

So, not quite "ultimate", not quite support, and not quite scout either...

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 21 November 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[Pwnocchio]

I like the premise.

I disagree that the BEAGLE isn't useful. Countering enemy ECM is useful for your team in the support role.

If you want to go 'full ******' in the support you might consider dropping a laser for a TAG. The ECM + TAG + Camo-ish Paint Job is a nice synnergy for sneaking behind enemies without being detected and target painting for your missile boats.

As far as modules go (I'm guessing the most this one has is 2 modules if you've mastered it), I'd probably go with UAV + Sensor Range, or maybe just UAV + Artillery Strike.

I think those consumables are very under-rated. A strategic UAV deployment will bring all the boys to the yard, not to mention counter enemy ECM for your missile buddies.

I do agree that the AMS + ammo tonnage may be better spend elsewhere (TAG + upgrading to a medium pulse? + jump jet?)

The AMS will help your team when you are with the assault force providing ECM cover, but not really if you are out actively scouting.

[JonahGrimm]

Quote

I disagree that the BEAGLE isn't useful. Countering enemy ECM is useful for your team in the support role.

No offense, but that beagle won't do a thing. If you /have/ ECM, the beagle's ECM-countering effect doesn't happen; you've got to counter ECM with your own.

(Mind you, I'm a /huge/ fan of the idea of everybody taking a BAP - it just doesn't matter if you're an ECM mech already.)

I'd suggest a TAG over BAP in this instance; the extra ton and a half could be used to uparm a bit.

[Amsro]

GLHF with that setup, turning the 5D into a slow 5V.

[TercieI]

BAP doesn't counter ECM if you also have ECM equipped. If it did, lots more 5D/3L builds would include it.

[Peter2k]

BAP doesnt give you anything in an ecm mech realy, I think they should document those things better.

put a TAG on it, you want to support than do it right :-) .
I´d put a UAV on it if you realy want to play that role, and a target decay, thats gonna help you're LRM boats as well.

I would put a ppc or ERPPC and a TAG on the arm
loose 2 JJ, AMS, BAP and that one heatsink
put on ENDO and 255 XL

should be good

[RallyPoint]

Thanks for the helpfull suggestions. I'm still new at this and learning. Those with the snide remarks can kindly go F themselves.

The BEAGLE (BAP?) is woefully undescriptive. If you read the description ... why wouldn't I take it? Sounds like there's nuances I don't understand that aren't clearly defined in the game's UI which is ... frustrating at best.

I don't use it as a scout; I stick with the group to provide ECM cover and AMS cover. So to me having longer range sensors seems like a good idea. I also keep getting conflicting information from different people. Some say ECM + BEAGLE is pointless. Others say they work together... they don't stack but they dont nullify eachother. How am I to know? Where is this stuff actually defined?

AMS ammo x2 is a bit much and I did say in my OP that dropping some or the whole system to get some more firepower would be nice. So yeah I agree but for now it's fine. Dropping that 1 magazine of AMS ammo isn't going to make any difference. I'd have to drop the whole system or drop one ammo and go with endo to get any usable tonnage. Again I'm not opposed to that but as of right now I don't have the C-Bills to do so and then it does change my role and tactics. I'm enjoying it for what it is; support.

As to the XL245... again, I don't have a lot of C-Bills... I have to share it with my Raven so I compromised. It's fast enough for me; I can easily juke and jive around enemy fire. More jump jets? Why? I can get anywhere I need to with the ones I have. Didn't see the point.

I have no moduels... agian I'm new... haven't 'mastered' anything yet. Haven't even spent my GXP because documentation and descriptions are so lame I can't even figure out what to spend it on. I click through the UI trying to figure out how to upgrade pilot stuff and modules and trees and ... ugh... it just doesn't make any sense.

Edited by RallyPoint, 21 November 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Scurry]

The Great Unwashed, on 21 November 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

4) You have 1 Heatsink and smurfy says you have 107% heat efficiency (100% without). This means you will not need the heatsink at all.

I won't comment on the rest, but he does need the heatsink to fulfill the minimum 10-heatsink requirement.

[Pwnocchio]

JonahGrimm, on 21 November 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

[/font] No offense, but that beagle won't do a thing. If you /have/ ECM, the beagle's ECM-countering effect doesn't happen; you've got to counter ECM with your own.

Touche'. I didn't realize that. It doesn't seem like it's documented in the item description. Maybe I missed it.

[The Great Unwashed]

Scurry, on 21 November 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

I won't comment on the rest, but he does need the heatsink to fulfill the minimum 10-heatsink requirement.

Err, yes, I stand corrected. I never ran a mech that had anything less than a 250 engine and forgot about that.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 21 November 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[RallyPoint]

Pwnocchio, on 21 November 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Touche'. I didn't realize that. It doesn't seem like it's documented in the item description. Maybe I missed it.

Exactly! It doesn't say ANYTHING about countering ECM. All it says is that it extends your sensor range, speeds up targeting, and can detect powered down mechs.

I had a 1.5 tons left over to use... says it extends sensor range... seemed OK to me. I understand I don't get any benefit from targeting because I don't have missles; doesn't bother me a bit.

[Amsro]

RallyPoint, on 21 November 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

SDR-5D_Harasser

ECM
AMS + AMS ammo x2
BEAGLE

4 Jump Jets
Doulbe Heatsinks x1
XL245 Engine

2 Med. Lasers

Rest of the tonnage spent on armor

Would like to free up some tonnage to get bigger lasers or a PPC. Something with more range. Probably go with endo, drop some AMS ammo or the whole AMS + ammo and get a bigger gun. But for now I'm enjoying it for what it is.

Spider 5D Update

I took your build and optimized it a bit, Endo Steel is a must for the extra tonnage.

Added 1 more medium laser, or you can switch it to a tag laser if you really want the support title. AMS ammo is better suited to areas that you need to protect anyway (head and CT)

Otherwise, this build will net you MUCH more damage.

5D

I wouldn't use your GXP on anything at this point, use C-Bills and get used to the less then ideal mechlab.

GL and Have Fun!

[Father Tork]

If your plan is to sit by the group and cover them, you don't need AMS and ECM, as if you're nearby with ECM, enemies can't lock missiles anyway...

For the record, playing as a scout with Tag, AND ECM, can give you extra C-Bills/XP, as long as there is 1 or 2 LRM boats looking for your targets. (Bonus c-bills/XP per enemy per friendly who hits a mech you tag, and bonus C-bills/XP per enemy per friendly who hits a mech who's ECM you're countering. I've often paired with friends having LRM boats and a designated spotter, the spotter can get an average of 150-200k C-bills, with some practice, even more.

[RallyPoint]

Amsro, on 21 November 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

Spider 5D Update

I took your build and optimized it a bit, Endo Steel is a must for the extra tonnage.

Added 1 more medium laser, or you can switch it to a tag laser if you really want the support title. AMS ammo is better suited to areas that you need to protect anyway (head and CT)

Otherwise, this build will net you MUCH more damage.

5D

I wouldn't use your GXP on anything at this point, use C-Bills and get used to the less then ideal mechlab.

GL and Have Fun!

Thanks for the helpful input and taking the time to actually adjust the build!

Father Tork, on 21 November 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

If your plan is to sit by the group and cover them, you don't need AMS and ECM, as if you're nearby with ECM, enemies can't lock missiles anyway...

For the record, playing as a scout with Tag, AND ECM, can give you extra C-Bills/XP, as long as there is 1 or 2 LRM boats looking for your targets. (Bonus c-bills/XP per enemy per friendly who hits a mech you tag, and bonus C-bills/XP per enemy per friendly who hits a mech who's ECM you're countering. I've often paired with friends having LRM boats and a designated spotter, the spotter can get an average of 150-200k C-bills, with some practice, even more.

Good point with the ECM and AMS; never thought of it that way. Thank you for clarifying that in relation to my style of sticking with the group and supporting them with ECM cover.

[Father Tork]

RallyPoint, on 21 November 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Good point with the ECM and AMS; never thought of it that way. Thank you for clarifying that in relation to my style of sticking with the group and supporting them with ECM cover.

Just remember the J key... It switches your ECM to ECM Counter, which will disrupt 1 enemy ECM in sensor range, especially useful if you have a light hunter with streaks near you, to gank the scout harassing your brawlers

[RallyPoint]

Based on excellent feed back here's my revisions:

Dropped AMS and all ammo; not necessary since I'm sticking with the group and have ECM.
Dropped Med. Lasers

Added:
Med. Pulse Lasers x2 on left arm
TAG on torso to add to support role
Upgraded to endo steel structure

SDR-5D_Support_Spider

I'm a little skeptial the TAG will help much. If I'm sticking with the group then TAG'n targets is difficult. If I go flank to TAG then I risk loosing ECM coverage for my teamates.

We'll see how it pans out! If the TAG ends up being largely pointless then I'll throw on another laser and bump up firepower.

[Dawnstealer]

All things being equal, I like having the TAG on my arm, especially if I'm going for support instead of offense. The reason is that you can TAG things while exposing as little as possible of yourself, but added to that, you can TAG things that are higher or lower than you'd normally be able to angle your torso. Also easier to track, if you're trying to TAG a faster-moving target.

[RallyPoint]

I don't disagree but I'd rather have the Med. Pulse Lasers on my arm than a TAG and one of the pulse lasers on my torso.

After about a dozen matches today... Love the TAG! It's came in SO handy. I know my LRM buddies love it too because their barrages were just raining down right on target. Netted a lot of assists and spot assists today!