20 replies to this topic

[Urdasein]

I often hear "lets flank'em".

And all the team is walking like lemmings on a weird path. Often leading to outrageous stomping.

Flanking mean attacking from both sides.

If you attack ALL from behind, the ennemy will turn back ... and nothing happened.

Hum yes, actually something happens, your assault are left behind, easy target for lights and youre being chewed by ennemy assaults.

How fun isn'it.

Edited by loupgaroupoilu, 21 November 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[scJazz]

The maps are too small, the fight too short, and the communication too poor to properly execute flanking.

I often see that one big stompy robot announce that he is going to flank. I immediately discount him as being dead and useless! Then I angle myself to shoot whatever kills him in the back!

[Buckminster]

I dunno, as someone that's been playing lights lately, I do plenty of flanking. It's very easy for me to get around a group of mechs, and then jump in and start hitting their backs. And even though I don't kill much, every mech that turns around to swat me becomes a delicious target for my teammates.

[Redshift2k5]

Proper flanks and exciting pincers certainly cn happen in MWO but it needs coordination and players on your team to be better at paying attention than the other team.

The "whole team flanking" can still be effective if your team pushes the previously entrenched enemy out of position and gets enough kills to improve their chances of victory before the entire enemy team has time to fully respond.

It's not the best tactic but it's occasionally useful and almost always better than letting your enemy stay in a defensive position where you can't remove vulnerable enemies from the match.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 21 November 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Buckminster, on 21 November 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I dunno, as someone that's been playing lights lately, I do plenty of flanking. It's very easy for me to get around a group of mechs, and then jump in and start hitting their backs. And even though I don't kill much, every mech that turns around to swat me becomes a delicious target for my teammates.

I thnk the argument is against those who try to drag their whole team into a flanking maneuver.
I do a lot of flanking myself, but I try to leave most of the team behind when I do it.
Either gets me killed for no bonus.
The enemy team turns around and my team slaughters their weak rear armor,
Or the enemy team turns around.... and my team runs and hides.

The more people who follow me when I announce I am trying it (IE "I'm flanking" rather than "Lets Flank") the worse it turns out.
To the point where if more than 2 people follow me (assuming the horde is in it's usual huddle) I turn back around and rejoin the group ("Nevermind")

[Lukoi Banacek]

Lou you make a good point but to be clear, flanking is not "attacking from both sides."

Tactically, to flank is to situate ones forces to the sides of the enemy's orientation. If a force flanks an enemy, their frontal assault is rolling up into the side of the enemy formation while their front is oriented usually ninety degrees away. Amplified by surprise, it allows the manuevering force to destroy or disrupt enemies forces before they can reorient their frontage effectively, thereby creating the death spiral we all know and love.

But just trying to take your force around to a side when they see you coming does allow them to reorient their blob to face yours and to potentially string out your slower assaults just like you mention in your OP, I agree.

[PropagandaWar]

I get you on this. Generally if you see a group that says flanking and they look realitivly fast. Dont follow. Honestly if forces them to keep moving instead of hitting from the sides. I know its a pain in the rear but use your map A lot. Dont over extend your flanks, especially on bigger maps. If a team gets behind a enemy group and you see the word push. Push the line it often means the group is now focused on the rear that is getting hammered.

Another thing that gets me is the guys who hold back. If you are down 2 or three mechs you can turn the tide but if you just sit behind a hill (which usually results in you getting blasted by superior numbers) you are going to cost the medium range and infighting lances the battle. cautions one thing but to much of it can be just as bad as to much aggression.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

loupgaroupoilu, on 21 November 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

I often hear "lets flank'em".

And all the team is walking like lemmings on a weird path. Often leading to outrageous stomping.

Flanking mean attacking from both sides.

If you attack ALL from behind, the ennemy will turn back ... and nothing happened.

Hum yes, actually something happens, your assault are left behind, easy target for lights and youre being chewed by ennemy assaults.

How fun isn'it.

This is why my lance doesn't communicate what we are doing. If we are lucky enough that the pugs don't follow us right at the start of a drop then we can flank them right away. Otherwise we have to wait for an opportunity to get away from the pugs and flank.

[Voivode]

A few swift mediums can execute a flank well as long as bigger stuff holds the line on the other side. It can be amazingly effective.

[Dawnstealer]

Flanking DEFINITELY works in this game, but as you pointed out, it doesn't work if EVERYONE goes to the flank. That's not a flank: it's a push.

A flank is when the enemy is concentrating on one group and the rest of them hits them from a side (or rear). So by the time they realize they're under attack, half their team's gone.

[PropagandaWar]

anything slower than 85kph should never flank. When I see this I face palm. Yeah you might pull it off on small maps but rarely.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

PropagandaWar, on 21 November 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

anything slower than 85kph should never flank. When I see this I face palm. Yeah you might pull it off on small maps but rarely.

We do it all the time in! Me in my Victors and we've done it in an Assault lance of Atlassss, A D-DC, K, D-DC, D and blasted the enemy line from behind resulting in them loosing 4 mechs in one shot, then two more on the next shot. So 6 down in a matter of seconds.

[Kraven Kor]

Yeah, it works, but only if you get 8-10 massed and holding their attention at least long enough for 2-4 flankers to get around them. Alternately, 2-4 fast movers can try to turn the main enemy group for your remaining 8-10 to hit them while they are so distracted.

I see it work by random chance or minimal planning on occasion, but it is just as likely to cause you to get stomped if it isn't executed correctly - again, by planning, or by chance.

[sneeking]

Shar Wolf, on 21 November 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I thnk the argument is against those who try to drag their whole team into a flanking maneuver.
I do a lot of flanking myself, but I try to leave most of the team behind when I do it.
Either gets me killed for no bonus.
The enemy team turns around and my team slaughters their weak rear armor,
Or the enemy team turns around.... and my team runs and hides.

The more people who follow me when I announce I am trying it (IE "I'm flanking" rather than "Lets Flank") the worse it turns out.
To the point where if more than 2 people follow me (assuming the horde is in it's usual huddle) I turn back around and rejoin the group ("Nevermind")

don't announce your intention, you will still likely die but at least you will have positioned yourself in relation to your team before they can react.

[PropagandaWar]

Werewolf486, on 21 November 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

We do it all the time in! Me in my Victors and we've done it in an Assault lance of Atlassss, A D-DC, K, D-DC, D and blasted the enemy line from behind resulting in them loosing 4 mechs in one shot, then two more on the next shot. So 6 down in a matter of seconds.

Oh you know I didnt take into consideration the all Assault matches where everything moves like molasses lmao. Then 70 kph would seem like light speed ;P

[Void Angel]

The problem isn't people trying to flank - it's the current lack of aggression in PuG matches. What often happens is that your flanking action is successful in itself, but your other force doesn't leave their coward holes to actually capitalize. There's reasons for this atmosphere - the prevalence of extremely long-range, low-heat weapons; the increase to 12-man teams, and the introduction of the Phoenix package (Battlemasters work well with XL engines, but are correspondingly hesitant to become heavily engaged;) etc. But it's still the wrong thing to do.

That being said, attempting to flank by breaking contact and moving around to another avenue of approach is risky on many maps. If you're leaving your main body to fight their main body, you cede a local numerical advantage to the enemy. This means that they may end up inflicting serious damage to your own forces while you're getting into position, or even figure out that you left and pick one force or the other to rofflepwn. Flanking is still a valid activity, and should be tried in matches - but you have to weigh how long it will take you to flank, as well as how easily you can retreat to your own lines again if you are discovered.

Edited by Void Angel, 21 November 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Flanking and encirclement are good for negating cover.

The "Looong flank" in which both teams circle each other in the attempt to flank each other with their main force isn't really a flank. Rather it is an endurance race that strongly favours the team with the least assaults.

[ManaValkyrie]

All the reasons for and against Flanking have pretty much been stated at some point in this thread.

MWO uses balanced numbers on each team, which does increase risks to those teams who attempt to break a 'deadlock' set of default positions and almost every map has those. Some maps are ideally suited with the terrain and cover to make a flank by a small number of mechs.

However, the advantage of making a flank to cause a devastating blow to a fixated enemy runs the risk of defeat in detail, i.e. your flank force gets chewed up by the enemy when they realise that mechs are hitting from another point. The only way this really works is for groups to actually hold in a main body for your flank to hit, then to roll in to the enemy once he becomes distracted further creating confusion and increasing chances of success.

The main reasons that flanks fail presently is Mob Mentality of must stick togethor, must stick togethor no matter what. One lance executes a flank, starts pulling enemy mechs out of position, only to find that the rest of the team has either attempted to follow them and allowed the enemy to envelop you. Where you are at a severe disadvantage due to terrain and position.

Or the rest of the team ignores you, keeps playing SniparWarrior at range and you get swallowed up, which then makes it easier for the enemy with more numbers to close and engage your remaining team.

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 21 November 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I thnk the argument is against those who try to drag their whole team into a flanking maneuver.

Fun fact, I like flanking solo because I like standing between 4 or 5 enemies and killing two before anyone reacts.

I hate...when the entire team follows me.

Spoiler

One guy can be stealthy. (Chose a lonely vid of awesomeness with 2 guys sneaking 'cause it's lonely).


Two, sort of if they get a love box.



12 players? No. Just no.

[Mycrus]

flanking werks!

It is an OP teamwork tactic...

As a 4-man communicate with your pugs

As a pug communicate with you 4-man

How do you think we rack up ggclose 12-0 wafflestomps?

http://mwomercs.com/...ith-their-pugs/