13 replies to this topic

[BlackIronTarkus]

Its fine and all that you announce that you are looking at hitboxes and attempting to fix them. Making a topic about what mechs are the next on the list is great as well. The only problem is that you dont conclude the update with revelent information.

You make a change, but we dont know about it, we have to dig and use discutable ways of figuring the change out. Why leave a bitter taste in the mouth of your custumers after a change instead of simply explaining such and such changes?

Where is the community manager? It doesnt have to be paul to do that kind of stuff... task him to do the research and communicate it with the player base. Its not that hard!

[Clit Beastwood]

BlackIronTarkus, on 25 November 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Its fine and all that you announce that you are looking at hitboxes and attempting to fix them. Making a topic about what mechs are the next on the list is great as well. The only problem is that you dont conclude the update with revelent information.

You make a change, but we dont know about it, we have to dig and use discutable ways of figuring the change out. Why leave a bitter taste in the mouth of your custumers after a change instead of simply explaining such and such changes?

Where is the community manager? It doesnt have to be paul to do that kind of stuff... task him to do the research and communicate it with the player base. Its not that hard!

There are threads about the hitboxes. The spider's hitboxes are now bigger than the mech, the awesome hitboxes were adjusted to make a less prominent CT, etc. - What are you asking for? So far your post is a criticism, which they're unlikely to respond do. I'd format this thread as follows

"PGI - I feel that the current state of communication on the subject of hitboxes is less than ideal. I propose the following XXXXXX"

A complaint without a suggestion to rectify the issue is just that - complaining. Offer some constructive feedback and there's a chance that maybe someone will bother reading and replying to your thread. Just a thought.

[LowSubmarino]

Mhh...I think it's really cool that they are changing things. It is also very hard to balance so many factors like different weapon types, ranges, hard point location, hit boxes, heat penalty...to name just a few. Everybody screams they know how to do it better but so far I approve of many changes.

It is also not good to change things too quickly back and forth and back again. A step by step approximation is good and I think they have been doing this so far. Some things are not perfect yet but they are looking at all the hit boxes for example. That is probably a process that never stops and they said as much.

[Bishop Steiner]

ever consider checking things like the command chair and announcement sections?

[BlackIronTarkus]

Wow you guys are total failure at reading comprehension. Breaking it down;

1: The suggestion is in the title, devs should post before and after hitboxs pictures and explainations about the changes.

2: Its a criticism: They announce they are looking at hitboxes, great. They announce what mech they are fixing, great. The patch hit and the player base have to figure out the changes by themselves with aproximative technique, NOT GREAT.

3: Yes Steiner, I checked. Unless I missed it there is no before and after pictures or description of the changes. So dont take me for a fool.

Now do you understand, class?

[Marmon Rzohr]

While I think you're being a bit overly critical:

I do think that an image depicting the hitboxes before/after would have been a nice touch.

To check hitboxes yourself:
use the mouse in the mechlab - it uses the mech's hitboxes for reference - so when you hover over the hitbox of an area, it will highlight. You can check hitbox borders easily this way.

[FupDup]

Marmon Rzohr, on 25 November 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

While I think you're being a bit overly critical:

I do think that an image depicting the hitboxes before/after would have been a nice touch.

To check hitboxes yourself:
use the mouse in the mechlab - it uses the mech's hitboxes for reference - so when you hover over the hitbox of an area, it will highlight. You can check hitbox borders easily this way.

The mechlab images are not the actual hitboxes in most cases.

[Tekadept]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 November 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

ever consider checking things like the command chair and announcement sections?

Checked, nothing there like the OP is talking about. Next?? Even Checked twitter as well

Edited by Tekadept, 25 November 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

FupDup, on 25 November 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

The mechlab images are not the actual hitboxes in most cases.

I wasnt talking about the colored sections when you select an area of the mech, but rather the area on the mech model you have to click in order to select it. Take any mech other than the catapult any try to select the head area by clicking on the mech model. Try tosee where exactly you need to click. The area the mouse accepts as the head will me much different to the area that lights up when you select it.

This area you need to click with your mouse is the hitbox. The same system that determines where damage is distributed is used forthe mouseover in the mechlab - that being hitboxes. :-)

[Hans Von Lohman]

FupDup, on 25 November 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

The mechlab images are not the actual hitboxes in most cases.

Sort of.

You didn't read the guy's post enough and missed a key fact. What you do is use your MOUSE to hover around over the mech and it will highlight various parts, like switching between the arm and side torso as you mouse around the mech.

What you were probably thinking was the gold, lit up body parts. You are correct about that, those are NOT the hit boxes.

However, the mouse works for finding the actual borders between what hitbox is where.

[Fooooo]

Hans Von Lohman, on 25 November 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Sort of.

You didn't read the guy's post enough and missed a key fact. What you do is use your MOUSE to hover around over the mech and it will highlight various parts, like switching between the arm and side torso as you mouse around the mech.

What you were probably thinking was the gold, lit up body parts. You are correct about that, those are NOT the hit boxes.

However, the mouse works for finding the actual borders between what hitbox is where.

Has this been proven ?

AFAIK the hitboxes are invisible no matter where you try to look at them (bar in autodesk or some other 3d proggy). Those outlines you see are an effect that is being used on the current geometry of the mechs.

It outlines around the arms and torso's making it LOOK like its the hitboxes but the way the mechs are put together in-game is by section, so it could easily just be outlining that part of the normal model geometry.

If it WAS outlining the actual hitboxes you would see some funky things, like on some of the mechs it should be outlines OUTSIDE of the actual mech model. (a few are like this, ravens legs, i think the spider just recived this treatment also.) Making it look like the outlines are floating in thin air. (if you use the method you are talking about and hovering over the section in the mechlab)

It also would not be so "accurate" and follow every curve and line on the mech either.....as that just more for the server to do afaik when dealing with hitboxes. (So simple is generally more efficient)

So, I don't think you can accurately gauge the hitboxes from the mechlab at all.......

Edited by Fooooo, 26 November 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

It is verified

(more or less)

Every mech that I have tested (the old awesome, catapult, jenner, cataphract) seem to confirm that this is a reliable way of finding the hitboxes.
There is also the fact that on the victor for example, you cannot select one of the legs when hovering over the pelivs, but you can on the Orion and the Awesome, which have had their pelvis hitbox split (you also weren't able to select either ST on the Orion by hovering over the area that lights up as the "CT", but you can now, since the CT has been narrowed)

I'm telling you, test it out yourself:
On the Cataphract, when the head is selected, the entire viewport lights up in yellow. But when you're trying to select the head by clicking on the model, you can only do so by hovering over the small square in the middle of the central viewport. Which is the actual head hitbox of the phract.

And you can verify that in the testing grounds.
(any mech that you can find in the testing grounds works well except the catapult or the jenner because their hitboxes are actually more or less exactly the same as the sections that light up, if I renember correctly).

[Hans Von Lohman]

Fooooo, on 26 November 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Has this been proven ?

AFAIK the hitboxes are invisible no matter where you try to look at them (bar in autodesk or some other 3d proggy). Those outlines you see are an effect that is being used on the current geometry of the mechs.

It outlines around the arms and torso's making it LOOK like its the hitboxes but the way the mechs are put together in-game is by section, so it could easily just be outlining that part of the normal model geometry.

If it WAS outlining the actual hitboxes you would see some funky things, like on some of the mechs it should be outlines OUTSIDE of the actual mech model. (a few are like this, ravens legs, i think the spider just recived this treatment also.) Making it look like the outlines are floating in thin air. (if you use the method you are talking about and hovering over the section in the mechlab)

It also would not be so "accurate" and follow every curve and line on the mech either.....as that just more for the server to do afaik when dealing with hitboxes. (So simple is generally more efficient)

So, I don't think you can accurately gauge the hitboxes from the mechlab at all.......

While I don't work for PGI, I have done 3D art work for other video game companies, in particular I made some of the pirate ships in the MMO called Pirates of the Burning Sea (which I grant you isn't a great game, but the 3D ship models are top notch). I've also done some work on a few favorite flight simulators that I like, especially the space flight sim called Orbiter (a freeware game that is similar to Kerbal Space Program, just less funny, but more technical).

If MWO has a system for hit detection in the game, there is no reason at all they cannot re-use that tech to control how you click on a mech, and have the game recognize that you just clicked on the rotatable 3D model's left arm. In fact it would be a colossal waste of time to have two completely separate systems for detecting this.

In effect in the Mechlab you are "firing" your mouse click at the mech, and it is hit detecting it, and that triggers the script to have the game select the body part, and also the script to trigger the animation of the camera POV moving to that location. and the script to change the texture map of that new body location to be the super gold reflective type, and change the body location you were just at back to the old texture (and people wonder why GUI's are hard to program, and this is a lot of work just to get the game to switch between two locations in a "simple" menu).

[BlackIronTarkus]

Im glad you guys came to the rescue, bumping for visibility.