49 replies to this topic

[Quizzical Coconut]

I really feel that it hit the medium class harder than the rest.

The gauss has gone from a versatile well rounded weapon to a hit and hide fire support weapon, and the only considerable replacement I've found in the same tonnage range is 2xac5. Heavies and assaults can usually mount this as well as other supplimentary weapons, lights never could mount a gauss effectively anyway, but the medium class lost a powerful tool, the only replacement effectively weighing 3-4 tons more (including ammo) while doing less alpha damage, requiring more crits and 2 hardpoints, and limiting supplimetary weapons even further because of these things.

[Profiteer]

Why are you running mediums anyway?

There are no weight limits in this game so you should be dropping in an assault or a light.

Mediums are fodder no matter what they can mount.

[Quizzical Coconut]

I'm not. Just an observed phenomena when I was creating Hunchbacks / Centurions / Trebuchets in smurphys mechlab and trying to give them a powerful yet manageable long ranged punch that isn't helpess at close ranges.

[Roughneck45]

The pathetic state of SRMs right now is the biggest indirect nerf to mediums.

The gauss rifle? Eh, maybe, I guess if you REALLY enjoyed gauss medium builds.

Edited by Roughneck45, 05 November 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[aakek]

Gauss rifle was never a very viable weapon for mediums. However its current state is good for mediums with their mobility for pop n snipe.

[Quizzical Coconut]

aakek, on 05 November 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Gauss rifle was never a very viable weapon for mediums.

Why not?

aakek, on 05 November 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

However its current state is good for mediums with their mobility for pop n snipe.

My victor can pop n snipe. even a 9M could. Honestly anything that isn't a stalker/atlas can pop n snipe. And yes, while the momentum of mediums makes it easier, just hit reverse on the bigger mechs before they get out of cover, expose your weapon arm for 1 second, and you've succesfully done 10-20 damage while taking none yourself.

Also, my point isn't that you can't hit and hide with the gauss (though the mechanic does make it more finicky), it's the inquiry of what happens when they close the distance, and a statement of the disadvantages of the weapon group that could mitigate such weaknesses.

[Bobdolemite]

Profiteer, on 05 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Why are you running mediums anyway?

There are no weight limits in this game so you should be dropping in an assault or a light.

Mediums are fodder no matter what they can mount.

Dont tell that to my blackjack, trebuchet, kintaro, or shadowhawk.... they all seem to do very well. But speed is very important as is high pinpoint alpha (ac20, ac10, gauss, ppc)

Slow mediums are a deathtrap, mediums where you have to face your enemy for more than a few seconds are a deathtrap (mostly) mediums without JJ's can be a deathtrap (the kintaro being an exception for me)

I love mediums, it may not work in high level organized 12 mans, but in the PUG games I play their mix of speed and damage leave them with kills, damage, and usually a salvage bonus (since I survive more often due to maneuverability)

As to the OP and gauss, I no longer use it on most of my mechs, but on those that used to equip them I now run AC10 - 20. Honestly dont miss it all that much, the exploding rifle was always a extreme negative for me even before the nerfs.

Edited by Bobdolemite, 05 November 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Mercules]

The Gauss Rifle was "Well Rounded"? When?

It does 15 damage with a fast moving projectile at long ranges and generates only 1 heat. It requires less crit slots than an AC20 but weighs only a ton more and gets more ammo per ton than the AC20. It is a solid weapon that is heat neutral and can be fired constantly until it runs out of ammo with no effect on the mech.

[Quizzical Coconut]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The Gauss Rifle was "Well Rounded"?

From a functional standpoint, yes. Good range, good speed, good alpha, acceptable dps and low heat made it a very versatile weapon.

[Mercules]

Quizzical Coconut, on 05 November 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

From a functional standpoint, yes. Good range, good speed, good alpha, acceptable dps and low heat made it a very versatile weapon.

Ah, you equate "Well Rounded" with "Does everything overly well." AKA, "Imbablanced". Now I understand.

[Bobdolemite]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Ah, you equate "Well Rounded" with "Does everything overly well." AKA, "Imbablanced". Now I understand.

No he means - extreme tonnage / slots requirements - mixed with highly explosive barrel / low ammo IE balanced. High risk vs reward, does good damage but runs the risk of exploding and taking out a ST/Arm

It was only unbalanced when coupled with 2+ PPC's hence all the changes. IMO though it was pretty balanced as it was, they should have tooled with PPC instead.....

[Blackfire1]

Profiteer, on 05 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Why are you running mediums anyway?

There are no weight limits in this game so you should be dropping in an assault or a light.

Mediums are fodder no matter what they can mount.

Profiteer, on 05 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Why are you running mediums anyway?

There are no weight limits in this game so you should be dropping in an assault or a light.

Mediums are fodder no matter what they can mount.

HAHAHAHAHA. You must be new here. Never look down at a medium. I'll out damage a heavy or assault 8 games out of ten. And live to tell about it.

[Quizzical Coconut]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Ah, you equate "Well Rounded" with "Does everything overly well." AKA, "Imbablanced". Now I understand.

Singularly it didn't do things overly well, just well. The problem is it was the only weapon in the game that did so, and as such stood out. I too would have liked them to fiddle with the PPCs before the gauss.

[Mercules]

Quizzical Coconut, on 05 November 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Singularly it didn't do things overly well, just well. The problem is it was the only weapon in the game that did so, and as such stood out. I too would have liked them to fiddle with the PPCs before the gauss.

It was the "only weapon in the game" that did things, "well". I think it it did things too well, which is why it was toned down. Think about what you said. It was the ONLY WEAPON that was considered a good weapon by you. The ONLY ONE. That is an issue.

[Roland]

Blackfire1, on 05 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHA. You must be new here. Never look down at a medium. I'll out damage a heavy or assault 8 games out of ten. And live to tell about it.

[aniviron]

Roughneck45, on 05 November 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

The pathetic state of SRMs right now is the biggest indirect nerf to mediums.

The gauss rifle? Eh, maybe, I guess if you REALLY enjoyed gauss medium builds.

The HBK-4H shone pretty brilliantly as a gaussback. It let you hit out to long range for the early/midgame when everyone was playing peekaboo and hiding, and you, as a smart hunchback pilot only took safe potshots. Then, once the real fighting began it was still better than an ac20 because you're brawling with five medium lasers; but unlike the ac20, the gauss generates no extra heat, so you can fire with impunity even at knife-fighting range.

Other than that though, I agree that viable SRMs would do worlds to help mediums and lights. The SRM is a weapon with a large spread and a slow speed but high damage for its tonnage, which defintionally makes it a choice anti-assault/heavy weapon system. Ravens, the JR7-D, HBK-4SP, and the CN9-A were all excellent mechs for keeping the weight bloating in check when tonnage is at a premium, but you see almost none of them in battle anymore, as SRMs are simply not worth bringing; and thus, lights and mediums are deprived of their greatest threat to heavy mechs, while the heavy weapons of choice in the form of PPCs, ACs, and llas, are all still quite viable.

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 05 November 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

The HBK-4H shone pretty brilliantly as a gaussback. It let you hit out to long range for the early/midgame when everyone was playing peekaboo and hiding, and you, as a smart hunchback pilot only took safe potshots. Then, once the real fighting began it was still better than an ac20 because you're brawling with five medium lasers; but unlike the ac20, the gauss generates no extra heat, so you can fire with impunity even at knife-fighting range.

Other than that though, I agree that viable SRMs would do worlds to help mediums and lights. The SRM is a weapon with a large spread and a slow speed but high damage for its tonnage, which defintionally makes it a choice anti-assault/heavy weapon system. Ravens, the JR7-D, HBK-4SP, and the CN9-A were all excellent mechs for keeping the weight bloating in check when tonnage is at a premium, but you see almost none of them in battle anymore, as SRMs are simply not worth bringing; and thus, lights and mediums are deprived of their greatest threat to heavy mechs, while the heavy weapons of choice in the form of PPCs, ACs, and llas, are all still quite viable.

I actually liked the 4G as the Gaussback.

It was virtually impossible for it to overheat (unless, you were firing in the depths of Mordor).

Edited by Deathlike, 05 November 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Profiteer, on 05 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Why are you running mediums anyway?

There are no weight limits in this game so you should be dropping in an assault or a light.

Mediums are fodder no matter what they can mount.

lmao until i kill you in my hunchie you say that all you want. Most assults are weak and a 1v1 against a non bugged light the medium will usually win. Sorry but its the truth.

[Captain Stiffy]

Roughneck45, on 05 November 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

The pathetic state of SRMs right now is the biggest indirect nerf to mediums.

The gauss rifle? Eh, maybe, I guess if you REALLY enjoyed gauss medium builds.

so like, how would they un-nerf SRM's to make med's better but at the same time keep the splat cat from pwning again?

I don't see the two as necessarily related anyway

[OneEyed Jack]

Splatcats were only ever a thing when SRMs were actually broken due to splash damage.